Approach briefing

Tram said:
I've gotten into a habit.. good.. bad.. not sure.. but I'll brief the missed on an instrument approach with the first handful of stuff I'm going to do... I.E. - "we'll be making a climbing right turn to 900 and I'll get you to walk me through the rest.."
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Eh, might not sit well with some folks, your mileage may vary. The first action is always the same - climb...

Also, I don't think visual approaches are supposed to be missed. As in, they don't have missed approach procedures.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Also, I don't think visual approaches are supposed to be missed. As in, they don't have missed approach procedures.
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I fly with LCA's all the time who brief a visual as if we are shooting the ILS to mins. I'm talking page number, date/effective date, type lighting and a complete discussion about the missed.. Same guys brief the taxi complete with reasons why certain hot spots became one, but if that's what makes them feel safe, I'm down..
 
Tram said:
I fly with LCA's all the time who brief a visual as if we are shooting the ILS to mins. I'm talking page number, date/effective date, type lighting and a complete discussion about the missed.. Same guys brief the taxi complete with reasons why certain hot spots became one, but if that's what makes them feel safe, I'm down..
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"In the event of a missed, we'll follow tower's instructions." Works for both IMC and VMC, and it's even compliant with the CFM.
 
FDX8891 said:
My approach brief: ALARMS

Atis - Can we get in?
Landing checklist before the FAF
Approach briefing - Courses, stepdowns, VDP, missed approach point
Radios - Comms/Navs
Missed approach point and first few instructions
Slow down
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I like this, although I would probably throw the L in at the end, which would make it less easy to remember
 
kellwolf said:
"In the event of a missed, we'll follow tower's instructions." Works for both IMC and VMC, and it's even compliant with the CFM.
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Similar to what I use. "If we have to go missed, in lieu of tower instructions we'll fly <the initial climb and turn in the procedure>"

Don't even start me on the missed approach briefing for visual approaches. I think it's asking too much to have someone think before they speak. They just blab out the Company Standard (TM) instrument approach brief.

And no Hacker, single pilot IFR is dangerous and unsafe. Shame on you for even suggesting it!
 
Tram said:
I fly with LCA's all the time who brief a visual as if we are shooting the ILS to mins. I'm talking page number, date/effective date, type lighting and a complete discussion about the missed.. Same guys brief the taxi complete with reasons why certain hot spots became one, but if that's what makes them feel safe, I'm down..
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If you're backing up a visual with an instrument approach, you brief the instrument approach.

As far as the mins, you set them but don't call them out. The missed approach I state "the published is xxx, however we'll plan on a vectored missed approach to rejoin."

Satisfies the most OCD and is simple.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
If you're backing up a visual with an instrument approach, you brief the instrument approach.
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Who actually backs up a visual with an instrument approach? I think most of us "back up the visual with the ILS" meaning that we'll follow the slope and loc down..

I see zero reason to brief the instrument approach when you're shooting a visual..
 
Tram said:
Who actually backs up a visual with an instrument approach? I think most of us "back up the visual with the ILS" meaning that we'll follow the slope and loc down..

I see zero reason to brief the instrument approach when you're shooting a visual..
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CFM 10-27. "The third type of visual approach is a visual approach backed up by an instrument approach. This requires a full approach breifing, excluding the altitudes on the approach and determination of the MAP."
 
kellwolf said:
CFM 10-27. "The third type of visual approach is a visual approach backed up by an instrument approach. This requires a full approach breifing, excluding the altitudes on the approach and determination of the MAP."
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I'll remember to snatch the CFM out next time I'm shooting the visual in the Moo-2 or the RV.. ;)
 
Tram said:
I'll remember to snatch the CFM out next time I'm shooting the visual in the Moo-2 or the RV.. ;)
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Hey, what you do on your own time is up to you. You can brief it inverted, if ya want. You're just upset because you said there was "zero reason," and I gave you one. :)
 
Can I add one for "when I'm PM, the PF doesn't even have the plate out and gets mad at me for calling out mandatory crossing altitudes and telling him he can't just follow the glideslope down"?

It'd be nice if he'd also brief the "once we hit minimums with the runway in sight, I'm going to duck below the glide slope and make 4 red VASI lights because I think doing so will save the brakes...which of course we hardly use on a 10,000' runway...so be ready to inhibit Bitching Betty".
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
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It'd be nice if he'd also brief the "once we hit minimums with the runway in sight, I'm going to duck below the glide slope and make 4 red VASI lights because I think doing so will save the brakes...which of course we hardly use on a 10,000' runway...so be ready to inhibit Bitching Betty".
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Had a friend call ProStans about a guy like this.. they turned it around on him.. It was awesome...
 
Tram said:
Guy tried to tell my friend that the glideslopes weren't designed for CRJs so in order to be on the proper glide path he needed to descend and come in low.... WTF Mate..
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I know the GS antenna is in the tail, and we come in nose low, but Jesus. The plane isn't THAT long. Besides, if ya flare it right, we touch down in the same place everyone else does. Some of the guys we've got working here are pieces of work.
 
kellwolf said:
I know the GS antenna is in the tail, and we come in nose low, but Jesus. The plane isn't THAT long. Besides, if ya flare it right, we touch down in the same place everyone else does. Some of the guys we've got working here are pieces of work.
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As far as the briefing, we've got similar wording in Southernjet's version of the CFM, known was "dis here manwell." (DHM) Edit: brain fart- It's located in our version of the FOM, which is "Dat other one" (DOO).

As far as the duck under... goodness. I was in turbomode to upgrade just to get away from yahoos that flew like that (both to not have to fly with them and to get out of that company, haha).
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
As far as the duck under... goodness. I was in turbomode to upgrade just to get away from yahoos that flew like that (both to not have to fly with them and to get out of that company, haha).
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We've got our share of those guys here as well. I just don't get it.
 
Tram said:
Guy tried to tell my friend that the glideslopes weren't designed for CRJs so in order to be on the proper glide path he needed to descend and come in low.... WTF Mate..
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I hate to be "that guy" again, but to be fair there are certain aircraft where this is true. In the T-38, I have to aim at the threshold until I'm about 1,000' short of it, in order to actually touch down about 1,000' down. That requires about 3 red/1 white on the PAPIs for most of final, and obviously it turns to 4 red as we get closer in.

If I aimed at the 1,000' markers (and flew 2 and 2 on the PAPIs all the way in) I wouldn't touch down until 2,000' down or later....which is bad in the ol' Talon, with tiny wheels and crappy no-antiskid brakes.

So, I can't speak of if the CRJ is one of those aircraft, but NOT ALL jets can fly the needles all the way down to touchdown.
 
Hacker15e said:
I hate to be "that guy" again, but to be fair there are certain aircraft where this is true. In the T-38, I have to aim at the threshold until I'm about 1,000' short of it, in order to actually touch down about 1,000' down. That requires about 3 red/1 white on the PAPIs for most of final, and obviously it turns to 4 red as we get closer in.

If I aimed at the 1,000' markers (and flew 2 and 2 on the PAPIs all the way in) I wouldn't touch down until 2,000' down or later....which is bad in the ol' Talon, with tiny wheels and crappy no-antiskid brakes.

So, I can't speak of if the CRJ is one of those aircraft, but NOT ALL jets can fly the needles all the way down to touchdown.
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That may be true, but if you carry that technique into a longer/larger aircraft, you're going to find your mains getting dragged through the approach lighting system.

A few transport category aircraft pilots have found out about that one the hard way.
 
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