IslandFlyer
Well-Known Member
How low?
How long?
Which way?
How long?
Which way?
Approach briefing
- Thread starter JordanD
- Start date
PeanuckleCRJ
Poodle Wrangler
My approach briefings have always been the same way regardless of chart (flows with the jepp the best):
Type, name, page, and revision date
App freq and course(s), stepdowns all the way to minimums, MSA, special notes
Identifying runway lights and the missed approach to the hold
Then I flip over to the aiport diagram and brief the dimensions of the runway, available runway after planned touchdown, and then brief the taxi to the gate (identifying runway crossings and hot spots)
Then, as per DL.... identify the greatest threats and their mitigation.
No, I'm not OCD.
Type, name, page, and revision date
App freq and course(s), stepdowns all the way to minimums, MSA, special notes
Identifying runway lights and the missed approach to the hold
Then I flip over to the aiport diagram and brief the dimensions of the runway, available runway after planned touchdown, and then brief the taxi to the gate (identifying runway crossings and hot spots)
Then, as per DL.... identify the greatest threats and their mitigation.
No, I'm not OCD.
ftyflyboy
Well-Known Member
This!!!
1) look over approach
2) fly approach
....what the hell is a missed approach?
That's where I get kind of confused... I've flown with some guys that want every single letter read aloud and some that seem to only want "the important bits". Whichever technique doesn't bust a checkride sounds fine to me...
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Granted we don't really DO approach briefs in my world (as you would be talking to yourself), but when I review a plate for myself, the big ticket items a look at are:
1) Navaid and IAP
2) Final approach course (or initial penetration course as applicable)
3) Significant stepdown issues (ie hard altitudes, or big steps)
4) Missed approach procedures......which normally reminds me to ASK for them well before I am busy configuring/flying/switching freqs, so that I don't have to fly the published missed
5) Requisite weather
6) Any unusual factors, such as terrain, noise abatement, remain within req's, etc
Beyond that, I could honestly care less about much else. Yeah some communities are big on reading the page number BS, but seriously, isn't it going to become pretty apparent almost immediately during the review if the pilot and copilot are not on the same page? Freq's? Who freaking cares?
1) Navaid and IAP
2) Final approach course (or initial penetration course as applicable)
3) Significant stepdown issues (ie hard altitudes, or big steps)
4) Missed approach procedures......which normally reminds me to ASK for them well before I am busy configuring/flying/switching freqs, so that I don't have to fly the published missed
5) Requisite weather
6) Any unusual factors, such as terrain, noise abatement, remain within req's, etc
Beyond that, I could honestly care less about much else. Yeah some communities are big on reading the page number BS, but seriously, isn't it going to become pretty apparent almost immediately during the review if the pilot and copilot are not on the same page? Freq's? Who freaking cares?
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
You might be surprised how the multi-crew world treats this stuff.
In a recent training program for a crew aircraft I was in, I was...surprised...when the instructor insisted I hand off control of the aircraft to the copilot while I briefed the approach! Despite the fact that we were on autopilot and quite a ways away from needing to make any kind of input on the controls, I apparently couldn't divide my time enough to read the approach plate.
To be fair, though, unlike in a single seat jet where you know what's going on inside your brain, and where you all ready know what your plan is, in a crew airplane you have to verbally let everyone involved know what it is you're thinking beforehand. The approach brief is much more significant there, as different people are going to solve the same problem different ways. Having different ideas about what's going to happen among the members of a crew is a bad thing.
So, I wouldn't be surprised if some communities got into the minutae of the plate to ensure everyone is literally on the same page, same edition, etc, during their brief.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
We hand off controls too. We also have the PM load the approach and the PF brief before execution. Now I say we "do" that, but many are complacent and just say "you got 36L in there"? Yup- ight. For some that's the brief. I actually like to keep it standard "sim world" style to keep in the right habit pattern. Kinda hard to get 20 year guys to comply with that when they have shot the same approach thousands of times.
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
:yeahthat:
higney85
Property of Scheduling
"This airplane.. That runway... Questions?"
Nope. Lenny's for lunch?
subpilot
Squawking 7600
Love it! I always think that when someone just reads outloud everything on the chart.
When I brief I first set up the airplane and then I am checking that everything is set as I brief the approach, sort of in a checklist style. I then will highlight the important stuff (MDA, Time, Missed, Verify we are above minimums, etc). It really isn't a big deal how you brief it, the important thing is can you read the approach chart in real time and get what you need off of it when you need it along with having 100% situational awareness of where you are on the apporach and always knowing the next 3 moves.
Rocketman99
Frozen Guppy Manipulator
It's sort of completely pointless to have an approach briefing for the airport you fly into on pretty much every other leg of everyday, particularly if it's VFR. I don't care what the page number is, what the date is, what the associated FAF/DH/DA are. Why? Because you're going to be flying a visual approach so pretty much none of that matters at all. Now if it's actual IFR and you're really flying the approach then by all means blab away. However, keep it to the key information. Anything beyond that I've probably stopped listening to anyway so save your breath.
It would be nice if someone was planning on flying the approach in a different way to say something about that, I'd actually love to hear it. But mentioning that the sequenced flashers are out of service when it's the middle of the day and CAVOK is not exactly relevant information (yep, that's a true story). I stick with the brieifing strip items for an approach brief. If it's visual I keep it to the min required items we have at my company which are few and make a nice concise brief.
I've also never understood the handing over controls when the AP is on to do the brief. It wasn't always policy here, but the feds made us add that in a couple of years ago. Apparently I can't make sure the computer is still flying properly while I read some items off a chart. So instead I hand it off to my partner who is engaged even more than I am with listening as well as just looking at the chart. Yep, makes perfect sense...
It would be nice if someone was planning on flying the approach in a different way to say something about that, I'd actually love to hear it. But mentioning that the sequenced flashers are out of service when it's the middle of the day and CAVOK is not exactly relevant information (yep, that's a true story). I stick with the brieifing strip items for an approach brief. If it's visual I keep it to the min required items we have at my company which are few and make a nice concise brief.
I've also never understood the handing over controls when the AP is on to do the brief. It wasn't always policy here, but the feds made us add that in a couple of years ago. Apparently I can't make sure the computer is still flying properly while I read some items off a chart. So instead I hand it off to my partner who is engaged even more than I am with listening as well as just looking at the chart. Yep, makes perfect sense...
Tram
Well-Known Member
I love the guys who will brief a visual like it's an ILS to mins.. I really love it when they brief the missed on a visual..
"Questions?"
"Well, yes, actually.. Do you really think we are going to climb to 900', then a climbing right turn to MEM and up to 5,000 and hold today??"
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Great point....I've done a number of warm body events flying WSO's around (simulator events only), and that is definitely the hardest thing to get used to, especially in those emergency scenarios that tend to get thrown at you in the sim. I have a plan about where I want to take the jet, and what I want to do with it, but in that environment, it is challenging to do everything else AND communicate it to the guy in the back.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
No. Furthermore, I doubt you're going to do that even if it's not VMC. Not saying you shouldn't brief it, but...eh...sweet words:
"Air Carrier 123 Memphis Departure radar contact, fly heading this and that, climb and maintain this and that."
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Kinda like the guys who call "minimums" on a visual approach.
...really? What exactly are the minimums for this here visual approach?
Tram
Well-Known Member
I've gotten into a habit.. good.. bad.. not sure.. but I'll brief the missed on an instrument approach with the first handful of stuff I'm going to do... I.E. - "we'll be making a climbing right turn to 900 and I'll get you to walk me through the rest.."
What exactly are the minimums for this here visual approach?
Tire spool altitude..
Mike H
Well-Known Member
They should take a Midol.
Originally Posted by SD3 Junkie
On my CFII checkride I briefed an approach and the DPE threw the charts in the back of the plane. He says "Ok bud, now out of all that crap you just recited, how much do you remember?"
Very little of it. If you were expected to remember it all, there'd be no reason to keep the approach plate where you can see it. How much of it did he remember while biding his time, waiting to drop a clever sounding line on you?
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
I guess it isn't possible to fly an aircraft IFR single pilot, then, according to the FAA.