9L, 9E, XJ JCBA Actual Language

A nice point for the Colgan folks (speaking for mostly EWR since thats what I know):

If you LIVE more than 50 miles away from where training will be held you will get a hotel. So for all those who commute to Newark for ground training and then on their dime pay for 5 days of hotel that is now on the companies dime. If you live within 50 miles and still want a hotel "move" a few weeks before training.

As for the min day not applying to reserve...from what I understand if you are on home reserve and get called in to do a dead head worth only 1 hour you will then get paid 4 hours.
 
pilotlight said:
I agree - Colgan should be throwing a party that they are going to get this contract. I know that probably insults some of you colgan guys and I appologize but seriously if that split pay issue is going to cause a no vote for you then ask yourself how your life is going right now at colgan? Try reading the rest of the TA and comparing it to what you have right now which is NOTHING
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Correct! The guys that have the problem w/ this deal, simply don't know enough (either due to ignorance, lack of information or being thick-headed) to be excited. This deal provides major improvements in many sections for all ~3,000 pilots, especially those currently at Colgan.

Are there areas where certain provisions were conceded? Of course, it's called "negotiations" for a reason. However, by and large, this JCBA is a tremendous leap forward for us, and the industry in general. To say otherwise simply highlights a lack of understanding of the industry as a whole.
 
higney85 said:
Pilots hate change, but look at this entire deal as if you were starting fresh at a new company. It's good stuff, of course there are always things to complain about- but we are pilots and that is our specialty.
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I might steal this in a month or so.

I'll buy you a beer for it.

Actually, Seggy will buy you a beer for it. Thanks Seggy!
 
On the trans-Atlantic per diem, I remember when we first got the -900s and during time when the sims were even more overused than they are now (and that was with THREE working ones instead of two) there was talk of guys being sent to GERMANY for sims. This was when everyone was hiring like gangbusters and sim time anywhere in the US was at a premium. We use STL now, but then it wasn't much of an option since they were already booked up. Now that the hiring boom is more or less stagnated, Flight Safety and Pan Am are begging guys to use the sims. I think this was tossed in there just in case some time in the next 5+ years we get back into that situation, we don't have to rush negotiate something.

Reserve days don't pay anything if you don't fly. Sorry, but welcome to 95% of the rest of the industry. I don't hear the jetBlue or Delta guys belly aching over that one. Like was pointed out, with no contract I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. It amazed management didn't toss that out the window when they bought Colgan. If you got Mesaba's contract, it still would have been gone.

I'm not a big fan of the implementation of the 11 day off min, but I can roll with it. Might mean an extra long vacation for me in September since I'll probably just tack them on to my vacation. Hell, if I get JFK over DTW, I probably will wind up with at least 11 days off anyway.

Now, the big question: when do we get the formula to figure out what our signing bonus will be? :)

I'm also with Tram on thinking outstation basing's days are numbered. It's cheaper to have one central MX base where your flights overnight than it is to ferry the planes to the MX base because they don't overnight there. It's one of the main reasons 9E fought to get the MEM overnights on the -900.
 
I heard there is a pay rate for the Q300 in your new contract? Anyone know what it is? I believe we are gonna try to reference that for our new 300's.
 
upup89 said:
I heard there is a pay rate for the Q300 in your new contract? Anyone know what it is? I believe we are gonna try to reference that for our new 300's.
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v1valarob said:
Our rates are by seat number and prop/jet. Not aircraft specific.
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Correct, we do have a 'ghost rate' that would encompass the Q300. You absolutely should utilize this during your negotiations. I'd be willing to bet your contract administrator will reference this, seeing as how he's also our contract admistrator. ;)
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Pilots are voting on the contract without knowing what they're getting for a signing bonus?
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We know it'll be the "best of" two formulas.. W2 and Longevity... Whatever yields more of the $10.X mil, is what we get..

I'm not going to hold up the contract by needing to know the bonus.. I've already lost more than I'll get in the bonus between TA1 and TA2...
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Pilots are voting on the contract without knowing what they're getting for a signing bonus?
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Info will be communicated to the pilot group in more detail, but exact numbers won't be known until the DOS. I know it sounds odd, but it involves eligibility of being on property on DOS since it's not retro. That's the reason guys don't have "their final number". On DOS the list will be finalized and made available to each pilot individually. With the latest 40.J from the EC in the Admin Manual there is the 30 day dispute period from that point. My hope/goal is that pilots have a bonus check in their checking acct at or before tax day. Obviously a single pilot can torpedo such endeavor, some don't realize this is a "best case" for everyone and will contest the matter. My prediction is those who contest the matter will end up with less in the end- especially after having to pay the associated fees.....
 
USMC-SSGT said:
As for the min day not applying to reserve...from what I understand if you are on home reserve and get called in to do a dead head worth only 1 hour you will then get paid 4 hours.
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That's correct. However, if you sit at home all day and don't get called, you don't get any credit.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Pilots are voting on the contract without knowing what they're getting for a signing bonus?
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Like Rex said, I also think this was something that killed TA1 (not that I really mind that). Not only that, it's caused HUGE amounts of friction in our pilot group. Guys are now talking about suing because they won't get as much of a bonus under this TA as they would have under TA1. Really? So, if my pay rate under TA2 was less than TA1, ya think someone would actually let me SUE over that? Well, that's not stopping these guys, apparently. They want their money, and they want it now. 'Course if I was gonna be getting more than the annual pay of a first (or second) year FO as a bonus, I'd be out there telling people to vote "yes," too. Like Ken said, the way things are set up, the only way you'll get an accurate number is on DOS since there's a factor based on how many pilots are eligible. I just tossed the bonus out there to twist the knife a bit. :)
 
kellwolf said:
Like Rex said, I also think this was something that killed TA1 (not that I really mind that). Not only that, it's caused HUGE amounts of friction in our pilot group. Guys are now talking about suing because they won't get as much of a bonus under this TA as they would have under TA1. Really? So, if my pay rate under TA2 was less than TA1, ya think someone would actually let me SUE over that? Well, that's not stopping these guys, apparently. They want their money, and they want it now. 'Course if I was gonna be getting more than the annual pay of a first (or second) year FO as a bonus, I'd be out there telling people to vote "yes," too. Like Ken said, the way things are set up, the only way you'll get an accurate number is on DOS since there's a factor based on how many pilots are eligible. I just tossed the bonus out there to twist the knife a bit. :)
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what will be really fun is if the bonus goes to an arbitrator and he says its a signing bonus and everyone gets an equal share. that would make me chuckle.
 
Which is actually less that what we get now...

I fail to see how min day helps reserve pilots, getting min day in the contract is great but without atleast ensuring reserve pilots still get the 2 hours the company was giving us is a big foul up IMO. Sure if you get called in you will get atleast 4 hours, except now if you do not get called in you get nothing... And not getting called is a common thing for me, I have been on stand up reserve for 2 months in IAD, and I was awarded another one in February. I flew 7 hours in December and I am currently at 10 hours for January, with nothing on my schedule yet for these last 5 days of reserve. Not flying might be a more common problem than some think.

Just because I am on home reserve does not mean I am at home on a day off. I cant drink a beer, I cant go far from home due to the 1:30 min callout, and I cant commit to anything on those days. I consider being on home reserve being at work and should be atleast compensated a little bit for it, even if it is just 2 hours of credit.

Don't get me wrong, I have read the whole TA at this point and I am voting yes because the pro's outweigh the con's by far but that does not mean it does not have issues.
 
Once guys get walked through the sched. section at the road shows, I am sure there will be pretty much unanimous support for this TA at CJC. It's that good!!:insane:
 
Still mystified... How any Colgan pilot can complain that the ta is worse in some ways than you currently have it...

Look, you don't have a contract. The company can take anything it gives you in the form of work rules away with no notice. Please, realize you are at their mercy.
 
v1valarob said:
So a 50min flight that is routinely done in 30 minutes, will be paid at the 30 minutes. If we do it in 50 we get 50, if we do it in 20 we get 30.

That's going to suck on the Saab side out of Dulles. My 85hr scheduled time normally ends up being around 65 at the end of the month because UAL likes to block flights with a long taxi, a route with no direct clearances, an instrument approach to a missed and then a landing.

Interesting.
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We used to fly at 180 kts when I was at Colgan, last leg of the day notwithstanding.
 
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