Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Is that 2 hours of credit in your current contract?
9L, 9E, XJ JCBA Actual Language
- Thread starter v1valarob
- Start date
Is that 2 hours of credit in your current contract?
Tram
Well-Known Member
Yes, definitely into Argument for Arguments Sake 206 at this point..
I quit, sunshine, you win.
If you and I ever wind up in the same aircraft, I'll buy you lunch one day, I promise I'm not the prick you and your buddies think I am...
I appreciate your answer to my question... What is it with you guys and posting just to post. I've posted two legit questions and have only received ill-conceived responses of no value.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
I can only find one.
Yes, the credit is going away. But keep in mind without a contract they could have taken it away any time they wanted.
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
So you have to break guarantee(ie credit more than 75hrs) before that 2 hours would have got added on? So if you credit 73 hours and have 3 days of reserve do you currently get 79 hours of pay?
higney85
Property of Scheduling
Jrsyguy- what is it that you seek? Have you searched? Compared? Read the friggin document?
Everyone wants the world, and frankly when pilots aren't complaining it's a "calm before the storm" moment, but you don't seem to be presenting the common knowledge to form the basis of an argument. If you don't like this deal, I ask what you are looking for? When you compile your list (which I am guessing would only entail sections 3 and 25) I would ask you to compare this TA language to the peer groups and inform the rest of us what we are missing.
As a 9E guy, whom is quite involved in the union aspect of things, I have taken the time to look at "the industry" and contrast and compare. This deal is quite good compared to the others and collectively ALL groups are benefitting. Not a single group is "losing" in the overall scheme of things. I am trying to hold my tongue but you are walking into a multi-generation deal that you would NOT see parity to otherwise in your own section 2 negotiations.
So- what's your beef?
Everyone wants the world, and frankly when pilots aren't complaining it's a "calm before the storm" moment, but you don't seem to be presenting the common knowledge to form the basis of an argument. If you don't like this deal, I ask what you are looking for? When you compile your list (which I am guessing would only entail sections 3 and 25) I would ask you to compare this TA language to the peer groups and inform the rest of us what we are missing.
As a 9E guy, whom is quite involved in the union aspect of things, I have taken the time to look at "the industry" and contrast and compare. This deal is quite good compared to the others and collectively ALL groups are benefitting. Not a single group is "losing" in the overall scheme of things. I am trying to hold my tongue but you are walking into a multi-generation deal that you would NOT see parity to otherwise in your own section 2 negotiations.
So- what's your beef?
pilotlight
Well-Known Member
Section 5.3 - Trans Atlantic per diem. First off - why is this in the TA - was it in the last ta? I guess if we ever got Airbus LOL or the china regional jet.
E. Trans-Atlantic Training Per Diem
1. A Pilot who is eligible to receive per diem and who is assigned to undergo
training at a site located in Europe will receive one dollar eighty-five cents ($1.85)
per hour in per diem.
2. Trans-Atlantic per diem will begin at the last point of departure in the United
States and will end at the block-in time at the first point of arrival in the United
States.
3. If the Company is able to secure an agreement with the training site hotel to
provide at least two (2) full meals per day at no cost to the Pilot, then the
domestic per diem rate set out above will apply, instead of the Trans-Atlantic
rate.
4. The Company will give notice to the Pilot when meals will be provided in lieu of
the Trans-Atlantic per diem by so stating on a document that accompanies the
training itinerary.1. A Pilot who is eligible to receive per diem and who is assigned to undergo
training at a site located in Europe will receive one dollar eighty-five cents ($1.85)
per hour in per diem.
2. Trans-Atlantic per diem will begin at the last point of departure in the United
States and will end at the block-in time at the first point of arrival in the United
States.
3. If the Company is able to secure an agreement with the training site hotel to
provide at least two (2) full meals per day at no cost to the Pilot, then the
domestic per diem rate set out above will apply, instead of the Trans-Atlantic
rate.
4. The Company will give notice to the Pilot when meals will be provided in lieu of
the Trans-Atlantic per diem by so stating on a document that accompanies the
Avro guys used to go to Europe for training. Also I think they used to send pilots over to Europe to pick up Saabs back in the day.
Oh and whenever this SLI is complete and you start flying with our senior XJ guys, get ready to hear about how the Avro was the greatest plane in the world.
pilotlight
Well-Known Member
So far, the vacation slides are the only thing that I am dissapointed with - the fact that you have to slide your vacation before the monthly bidding. Right now, I am junior and just turned one week of vacation into 2 by covering a trip with my slide. In the new method after you slide your 7 days they will just put trips on either end of it. The one thing I dont understand is these attach a days to the begning or ending of the trip. Are those comp days or are those days we get to do that?
Its not even close to being an issue that would cause me to vote no, but just something that will not be as good as we had it.
Its not even close to being an issue that would cause me to vote no, but just something that will not be as good as we had it.
pilotlight
Well-Known Member
This is a big improvement for me - I cant tell you how many times I would have a phone call after my flight sim PC for an assignment on reserve right after it.
Thank you Joint MEC
A Pilot will not be scheduled for flight or reserve duty (excluding
deadhead) during the same Duty Period in which he is scheduled
for a Checkride, PV, MV, type ride, Recurrent Flight Training,
Recurrent Training, or Long Term Training.Thank you Joint MEC
A Pilot will not be scheduled for flight or reserve duty (excluding
deadhead) during the same Duty Period in which he is scheduled
for a Checkride, PV, MV, type ride, Recurrent Flight Training,
His beef is when the TA summary came out a few weeks ago, he went straight to Section 3, saw the split pay rates and made up his mind. Instead of calling his reps and asking why it was done that way, he made up his mind. Nevermind the fact of all the improvements he will get. Nevermind the fact that this is his first contract. Nevermind the fact that we have a strong section 1 in there. Nevermind the fact that he wouldn't get half the things in there if they went on their own. Does that sound about right Jrsyguy?
He's already made up his mind. Don't waste your time trying to educate him. People have been trying to educate him for the last 23 pages on that other thread.
Hate to sound like a jerk, but when this TA passed a few weeks ago, I was most worried about what the 9E guys would think. I mean you guys are the ones that were in this for 6 years. You guys had the most to lose in all this. You guys were the ones that were pissed, and with reason to be. But coming on here, and reading some of these guys posts, I didn't think it would be the junior 9L guys making the biggest stink.
pilotlight
Well-Known Member
Ok this throws up a flag for me - its in the appendix section that talks about when things will be activated.
Now, If I know Pinnacle and Colgan and their staffing levels - how long is it going to take to implement the scheduling section. Granted getting 8 hours of pay for one extra day would be nice but how are we going to be able to hold them accountable for implementing the new contract? I believe we are in such a hole staffing wise that we will never be able to catch up especially if the majors start hiring.
Beginning April 1, 2011 and until such time as Pinnacle and Colgan are able to
implement the requirement of Section 12.E., a Pinnacle or Colgan Pilot who is
awarded one less than the minimum contractual days off in Domicile in a Bid Period
shall receive either a Compensatory Day or an additional vacation day, at the Pilot’s
option, for that Bid Period. In addition, the Pilot shall receive 8 hours of Pay Credit,
paid above guarantee.implement the requirement of Section 12.E., a Pinnacle or Colgan Pilot who is
awarded one less than the minimum contractual days off in Domicile in a Bid Period
shall receive either a Compensatory Day or an additional vacation day, at the Pilot’s
option, for that Bid Period. In addition, the Pilot shall receive 8 hours of Pay Credit,
Now, If I know Pinnacle and Colgan and their staffing levels - how long is it going to take to implement the scheduling section. Granted getting 8 hours of pay for one extra day would be nice but how are we going to be able to hold them accountable for implementing the new contract? I believe we are in such a hole staffing wise that we will never be able to catch up especially if the majors start hiring.
pilotlight
Well-Known Member
I agree - Colgan should be throwing a party that they are going to get this contract. I know that probably insults some of you colgan guys and I appologize but seriously if that split pay issue is going to cause a no vote for you then ask yourself how your life is going right now at colgan? Try reading the rest of the TA and comparing it to what you have right now which is NOTHING
pilotlight
Well-Known Member
tell me how many times in your career at colgan that you have not been used on reserve? I am willing to bet its not that often.
No min day in the outstations at all, even for lineholders. Expect ALB, SYR, PQI and BOS to have 24 pilots based there.
How many XJ pilots are going to be based in LGA?
Tram
Well-Known Member
I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts the out station stuff goes away...
I hope you are right. But I am worried that the company will not want to spend the extra money required for a BOS base.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
This issue is actually VERY nice for our side... If a pilot is awarded a 10 day off line (rsv or lineholder) their guarantee is automatically 83 hours PLUS a comp day that you can use as soon as the lines are fixed with staffing. I believe I was told September as the deadline. The company MUST hire and get staffing right and they HAVE been hiring but not enough to truly keep their heads above water. Comp days are different now in that they MUST be honored (you do have to give 3 choices of days) or you can cash it in..... If you have a few of them it will make for a nice month in pay/time off.
higney85
Property of Scheduling
You can add your "off days" to either side, then slide. Every pilot is guaranteed to be able to have a "working mans" vacation of a full M-F and both weekends. On top of that the vacation shows in PBS as about 25 hours of credit so it will be as if you have a trip in there and have to deal with 30/7 in construction. Our scheduling/PBS guys looked at this and it will help pretty much everyone. The very top guys should still have the bidding horsepower for a full 2 weeks off. This is MUCH better than TA1. The other thing it does in enhance lines below. That nice 4 day trip that was on a more senior pilot that would go into open time for a build up line is now in the generator for a lineholder on initial bids. Pilots hate change, but look at this entire deal as if you were starting fresh at a new company. It's good stuff, of course there are always things to complain about- but we are pilots and that is our specialty.