Jets vs. Helicopters

BAMCIS

BAMCIS

Well-Known Member
Hello-
I am a Student Naval Aviator (Marine Corps) in primary flight training. In the next few months, I will have to come to a definitive conclusion as to what goes on top of my "dream sheet" for airframe selection. I am torn between helicopters and jets. I am wondering if anyone has any anecdotes about the lifestyle of fighter pilots or helicopter pilots with benefits and drawbacks? I keep hearing don't choose an aircraft, choose a lifestyle. Any input would be great. Thanks!
 
I don't fly jets and am not in the military, but my .6 in Helos tells me that helicopters are pretty damn fun.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu_leZE76VE&feature=player_embedded

Someone sent me this a few months ago and I thought it was hilarious. It does make a few good points too.

Not that I'm saying YOU should choose helicopters, (I don't fly them, although I would like to learn how someday), just choose whatever you think you would like best.

I myself would rather stick to airplanes most of the time, (you can actually glide if your engine(s) quit.
 
BAMCIS said:
Hello-
I am a Student Naval Aviator (Marine Corps) in primary flight training. In the next few months, I will have to come to a definitive conclusion as to what goes on top of my "dream sheet" for airframe selection. I am torn between helicopters and jets. I am wondering if anyone has any anecdotes about the lifestyle of fighter pilots or helicopter pilots with benefits and drawbacks? I keep hearing don't choose an aircraft, choose a lifestyle. Any input would be great. Thanks!
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More than likely as a Marine aviator, your chances of going helos is far more than going jets anyways, true?
 
Choose what you think you want......let the Marines make the final decision for you :) Seriously though, I know folks who are happy in both communities, and folks who aren't happy in both as well. As an SNA you really don't have enough experience with any of them to really make a very educated decision, so I'd honestly just say go with your gut. There are going to be goods and others about any platform that you go to, helo or jet. If you have specific questions about jets, feel free to ask away....I'm part way through the Hornet RAG right now, so it is pretty much my entire life right now :)
 
As a military helicopter pilot, I recommend unequivocally that you put jets as your top choice.
 
Drones are pretty fun! I get to drink coffee when ever i want, take a dump whenever i want, BS with the guy next to me, watch things blow up, nap, play games, read a magazine, play tick-tac-toe, do a crossword puzzle. And when it crashes, i get to help glue it back together!!! Who said military arts and crafts cant be fun!!!
 
Hacker15e said:
What % get jets?
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about 15% of SNA's in the Marine Corps select jets, and they choose between the F/A-18C or D, the EA-6B, or the AV-8B. The minimum NSS for jets is 52, I've been told to expect anywhere form 60-70 to realistically get jets.
 
///AMG said:
Choose what you think you want......let the Marines make the final decision for you :) Seriously though, I know folks who are happy in both communities, and folks who aren't happy in both as well. As an SNA you really don't have enough experience with any of them to really make a very educated decision, so I'd honestly just say go with your gut. There are going to be goods and others about any platform that you go to, helo or jet. If you have specific questions about jets, feel free to ask away....I'm part way through the Hornet RAG right now, so it is pretty much my entire life right now :)
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As cool as it would be to ride around at cherubs .25 with a chain gun, dodging geese and bullets and arrows, my gut says Jets. A few questions I have amongst many: What is daily life like in the Hornet RAG? What kind of NSS is realistically competitive for jet track selection? What is the primary focus in the Hornet community (as far as CAS, ACM, etc)? How bad does it hurt your ass cheeks crossing an ocean in an ejection seat? Again, the guidance is most greatly appreciated...​
 
Lefty said:
As a military helicopter pilot, I recommend unequivocally that you put jets as your top choice.
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Many is the helicopter pilot, my own brother included, that have advised me to seek my career in the jet track. I have yet to meet the jet pilot that says screw these jets, where you really want to be is in a helicopter.​
 
BAMCIS said:
about 15% of SNA's in the Marine Corps select jets, and they choose between the F/A-18C or D, the EA-6B, or the AV-8B. The minimum NSS for jets is 52, I've been told to expect anywhere form 60-70 to realistically get jets.
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Unfortunate that the Corps doesn't have a real CAS aircraft to put their guys in.........
 
MikeD said:
Unfortunate that the Corps doesn't have a real CAS aircraft to put their guys in.........
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I have always thought the Corps would do well with the A-10 or the Apache, but after talking with guys in the fighter community, there are pretty sound reasons why we fly what we do. The Hornet has legs, speed, and useful load to deliver ordinance to bad guys, and most importantly, flies off the boat. The Harrier is truly an expiditionary airframe, as it can land and be re-fueled and rearmed with nothing more than a clearing in a forest and then returning to the fight. Much of our CAS comes from helo's, which comprise 80% of our air assets. But you can't drop a 2,000lb bomb with a helo.
 
BAMCIS said:
What is daily life like in the Hornet RAG?
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Kind of depends on which one you go to. Front office, instructor cadre, general atmosphere play into it just as much as anywhere else. In terms of flying, my squadron is a little slower moving than the other ones (122 or 106). They advertise about 8-9 months to completion, while -101 is well over a year for most folks. Not a bad thing, as living in San Diego rocks, and being a Navy guy, I won't be coming back after this. It does tend to make for a weird schedule though.....some weeks you are doing almost nothing, others you are double pumped every day. Jet availability is a big problem in the legacy hornet rags, at least from what I have seen so far. Most all of them are jets that have been booted from the fleet with high hours, so you are working with the oldest jets around generally speaking. I've probably been maintenance cancelled more than I have flown at this point. Silver lining of this is that there is a lot more time to study, and believe me, there is a TON of stuff to learn. Will hit more on that in a couple questions....

BAMCIS said:
What kind of NSS is realistically competitive for jet track selection?
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This really depends on the week you select. Normally anywhere above 60 will get you jets most of the time, but there are weeks where the guys with 65-70's get helos, and there are weeks where dudes with 50's get it as well (or for Marines 52 or whatever your minimum is). You are probably a lot more familiar with recent trends than I am though, so I'd just kind of take a look at those ahead of you who are selecting.

BAMCIS said:
What is the primary focus in the Hornet community (as far as CAS, ACM, etc)?
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Pretty much everything.......good at everything, master at none as some would say. In the FRS you will go through 3 basic stages, transition (fams, forms, all-weather-intercepts, in flight refueling), Air to Ground (basic weps, CAS, urban-CAS, LAT-low-altititude-training, NVG's, and a few other odds and ends), and then Air-to-air (BFM, fighter weps, self escort strike), and then of course you go to the boat again, and at night this time. So in short, there is not really any specific area of focus, though I guess you could take a look at the current situation in OEF and determine what it is that we are spending the most time doing currently.

BAMCIS said:
How bad does it hurt your ass cheeks crossing an ocean in an ejection seat?
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Never crossed the ocean in one, but I will say that after about an hour or so, it starts to get pretty uncomfortable. Same goes for the T-45 should you go the jet route. Luckily, most of our training flights are not much more than a 1.0, though you will come back, de-arm, then spend another 20-30 mins going through hot-pits and possibly more waiting for a follow on crew to walk for a hot-seat, so even a 1.0 generally ends up being about 2.5-3.0 sitting in the chair.
 
BAMCIS said:
I have always thought the Corps would do well with the A-10 or the Apache, but after talking with guys in the fighter community, there are pretty sound reasons why we fly what we do. The Hornet has legs, speed, and useful load to deliver ordinance to bad guys, and most importantly, flies off the boat. The Harrier is truly an expiditionary airframe, as it can land and be re-fueled and rearmed with nothing more than a clearing in a forest and then returning to the fight. .
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Don't make me laugh too hard here......

Truly exceptional? Technology-wise, yes. But the Harrier is quite limited for CAS, or anything else for that matter. The A-4 carried far more and had legs. When I was overseas, we had a Harrier squadron supplementing my A-10 unit. Their loadout was one GBU-16, one LAU-131 rocket pod, and a tiny amount of 25mm gun rounds, and an external tank. And they still had no legs. The whole VTOL concept means that they can't carry much in ordnance or fuel, and even when in the normal airplane mode, they still didn't carry anything.

As for the F/A-18, speed isn't really needed in CAS. Their useful load is so-so. The D model in the VMFA(AW) units don't operate off the boat (likely don't need to) as they have little bringback capability. The single-seat units do alright with what they have.

Don't get me wrong, Marine Aviators are some of the finest CAS pilots around, and you can't beat having your own internal air whose sole existance is support of the Marine on the ground. It just sucks that their equipment on the fixed-wing side isn't as good as it could be. F-4 wasn't too bad, but the A-4 rocked for what they needed.
 
BAMCIS said:
after talking with guys in the fighter community, there are pretty sound reasons why we fly what we do.
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Yeah, the reason is that's because those airplanes are what your Uncle Sam bought them for the mission.

Unfortunately, that doesn't necessarily make 'em the best tool for the job.
 
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