flyingmaniac
Well-Known Member
I say Jets...because you don't want the helicopter flying you, you want to fly the jet.
Jets vs. Helicopters
- Thread starter BAMCIS
- Start date
Lefty
Well-Known Member
I'll trade you 6 hours of Chinook time for 3 hours of Hornet time
You used to be so excited to fly Chinooks...
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I'll trade you 6 hours of Chinook time for 3 hours of Hornet time
If we could make that happen, I'd be all about it. I'd love to try my hand at some vertical lift heavy metal!
As for MikeD's comment re: Hornets/CAS, yeah there are definitely some shortcomings with the Hornet. In goofy gas configuration, the deltas actually have a relatively good load out, though this sacrifices fuel/on station time and requires more tanking. Charlies flying off the boat are more limited, as we have assymetric loading limits for cat shots that exceed those of field takeoffs depending on overall GW. Either way, we have short legs....maybe not as short as the Harrier, but the joke that Hornets are emergency fuel off the clearing turn I guess contains at least a little bit of truth. I haven't been in country yet, so this is all second hand info, but it seems to me from everything I've heard, that the real advantage of the Hornet in the CAS environment is its sensors and ability to enhance the SA of the guys down in the cherubs flying the big guns (AH-1, UH-1, A-10, etc) and putting the fear of allah into the hearts of the bad guys.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
For the AV-8B to work like it was supposed to, it needs to be deployed well forward, literally just behind the artillery. Allowing it to take off, hit something, return, refuel/rearm, repeat, rapidly. This is only usefull in a limited number of scenerios (and not at all in the present conflicts).
However in the real world, the lawn dart needs an airbase to keep it running. This means that it will be based on a normal airfield nullifying it's entire puropse (short TO/Vert landing).
The Harrier does ONE thing very well. It gives the gator navy an adequate fighter that can fly off of their decks. Allowing the LHDs and LHAs the ability to opperate with out a CVN nearby if nessacery. In virtually all other operations, it falls short of even propeller aircraft (give me a A-1 Skyraider over an AV-8B any day).
HuggyU2
Well-Known Member
NOW we're talkin'!!! Giddyup!!
T6Marine
Well-Known Member
Let's be honest, how well are you doing in training so far? That will be the biggest deciding factor. After about three flights with the student, I could tell which way they were going to go. If you are average then good beat you are on the road to helo's. If you are rocking the program and getting above after above all the time you are headed to jets. Be realistic with yourself and look at your progress and you will see what path you are on.
Remember the beauty of the Corps is that we allow for dreams and reward with reality.
It is about 20% going to FW, 70% going RW, 5% Osprey, 5% C-130. Seeing as you are selecting mid to end of FY odds are weighing in favor of RW. But you never know, do your best and stay focused on the next flight to make your dreams come true.
Feel free to PM with specifics, I still have a ton of contacts throughout the Corps that can help you out.
Remember the beauty of the Corps is that we allow for dreams and reward with reality.
It is about 20% going to FW, 70% going RW, 5% Osprey, 5% C-130. Seeing as you are selecting mid to end of FY odds are weighing in favor of RW. But you never know, do your best and stay focused on the next flight to make your dreams come true.
Feel free to PM with specifics, I still have a ton of contacts throughout the Corps that can help you out.
BAMCIS
Well-Known Member
I am only a few flights in, but so far I feel very confident. My briefings are very strong and I have only gotten a couple of 3's (The rest being 4's and 5's). I expect the curve to steepen rapidly and am taking advantage of weather and maintenance delays to get as far ahead of the ball as possible. After the first few flights, I am definitely going to be putting jets as my first choice. A conclusion I recently came to, however (over a few cold beverages with a fellow Marine), is that I could spend at least a half hour apiece espousing the virtues of every airframe in the Corps' inventory, and any one of them would truly be a privelege to fly. So with that in mind, I am putting jets first, but will be nothing less than thrilled to fly anything that puts wings on my chest. Yut.
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
What is the training path for Osprey? Helos use to be some FW stages(primary or intermediate?)followed by RW. Would a student going Osprey have experience in several Category and class (SEL, MEL, R-Helo, Powered lift)? What grades are required for that?
That would be my choice.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
V-22 studs start out advanced in TH-57's in Whiting, do that syllabus, and then move out to Corpus for multi training (can't remember if they do it with -31 or -35). No idea what ratings they qualify for, and AFAIK there is no minimum primary NSS for V-22's, though I doubt they hand them out to the folks who struggled.
juan valdez
Well-Known Member
To me, the Cobra is end all be all. If I were to ever go back in, which is beyond a long shot, I would try my damndest to lie, cheat, steal my way into an HMLA squadron.
For the fresh faced, bushy tailed Lieutenants I believe they followed the route that AMG listed though I thought I remembered them saying they spent some time in a C-12, could be my rusty memory failing me here though. Since we are still troop transport/combat assault support airframe I don't believe they need to have a high NSS.
When I separated my squadron (VMM 263) had only a handful of pilots that had come through FRS, overwhelming majority where transfers from other airframes. I believe they just simply transitioned over and spent time at the training squadron to get spooled up and then came over to us. Interestingly, some of our pilots who came from fighter community would swear that if they had to they couldn't fly a helo but were pretty good sticks in the Osprey.
For the fresh faced, bushy tailed Lieutenants I believe they followed the route that AMG listed though I thought I remembered them saying they spent some time in a C-12, could be my rusty memory failing me here though. Since we are still troop transport/combat assault support airframe I don't believe they need to have a high NSS.
BAMCIS
Well-Known Member
I have a follow on question- Now that I am a decent way through primary (Contacts and forms complete, in RI's) I have found that everyone seems to be making their selection wishlist based upon unsubstantiated impressions about the various lifestyles that go with each platform. As one of the few guys that is all about tac air (jets specifically, but a cobra would definitely do it for me), everyone looks at me like I'm an idiot. Apparently, the word on the street is that tac air is the longest, hardest training, the highest attrition rate, and the most austere and brutal lifestyle once you make it to the fleet. It can't be that bad, can it? A surprising number of people are hoping for P-3's or C-130's for the "lifestyle"... I didn't join the Marine Corps to live a comfortable life, but is tac air really that much more intense than say a C-130? And wouldn't it be worth it to fly a jet? Am I the only one who left who wants to play shirtless beach volleyball in my dog tags to Kenny Loggins whilst high-5'ing?
By the way AMG, Osprey's train in C-12's in VT-35.
By the way AMG, Osprey's train in C-12's in VT-35.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Charges 1 and 2 are a definite yes, though I don't know if the attrition rate is significantly higher than other pipelines. Austere? I guess Lemoore is austere but you spend a lot of time on a big grey boat as well, just like your helo friends. Being USMC, you also would have the great options of Beaufort, Cherry Point (some like it anyway), Yuma (ok maybe not that great but I hear it can be fun), and of course my personal favorite, Miramar (highly recommended if you have the means).
Brutal lifestyle? Not sure as I'm still in the RAG, but just know that the quals/upgrades/etc don't end anytime soon after you pin on wings. There is a LOT to learn, particularly in the Hornet community. Single seat pointy nosed jet flying is not for everyone, and it is not easy. Some people might make it look that way, but it is a lot of studying, long hours of briefing, flying, debriefing, and still more studying. I've never flown C-130's or any other type of platform, but I honestly can't imagine that any of them are as intense or demanding....maybe save Cobras or something.
We do absolutely everything there is to do in a combat aircraft, with the exception of hovering and delivering cargo. You have to know it all cold, and execute it in very demanding environments. There is little margin for error, and plenty of folks in this business have proven that.
To give you an example of a typical day of flying in the tacair world, had an early morning brief, launched, did a radar trail departure through some local weather, got joined up on top en route to FL230, looked over my lead, jumped out to ATC spread, transited a hundred miles or so, dropped down into R2301W, raged around as a section at 300'/500 kts for a good half hour, woke up some sleeping Marines out in tents, did low level pop attacks on an airfield, knocked it off, joined back up heading back west to FL220, checked eachother over coming out of the range, I jumped back into ATC spread, we cruised about 100 miles home, broke up for individual PAR's to a full stop back through the low overcast at home field due to fuel concerns, and called it a flight. De-arm, go through the hot pits for another 15-20 mins, and then spent another half hour in maintenance control filling out paperwork/stripping maintenance card. Debriefed for another 30 mins after the flight, and went right back to prepping for tomorrow's flight.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
In my experience, such thoughts are usually student coping mechanisms for the fact that they are not sure they can achieve high enough grades to select fighters, or not sure they could pass such training if they had the opportunity to be in it.
But, the reality is, YES...at least as far as the USAF is concerned...life in the fighter community is tough. The hours are long, the training and flying is demanding, and it's certainly not easy.
Things that are 'worth it' in life are rarely easy, and I think you'll find a similar relationship with military flying and the dedication and intensity it requires.
bunk22
Well-Known Member
Don't let the non-tactical types who have not been there done that talk you out of going for what you want. Listen to only those who have been there done that. Of course it's tougher, it's a true tactical platform. If you get it and want a break but still fly, go to the VT's and if you still want jets, go fly 45's. We have plenty of tactical guys down here, burnt out a bit it seems, liking the basic flying of the 45 syllabus. I was a COD pilot so my lifestyle was relatively fantastic compared to most but I think if you want to fly fast, strap on all that gear and sometimes go balls out, go jets. This is your only chance in life to do so...so make it count.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Nihon_Ni
Well-Known Member
Good luck with the lottery. You'll be happy with whatever you get if you have the right attitude.