How Lively is GA where you live?
- Thread starter Vector4Food
- Start date
Pépé le Pilot
Well-Known Member
Bogota : absolutely inexistant. The thing is that the past 30 years a different type of GA 
developped here and that kind of put a damper on the other GA...
developped here and that kind of put a damper on the other GA...
tlewis95
I drive planes
The IL/WI stateline and Chicago area are great for GA. With dozens of flight schools, 7 airport restaurants, 5 glider operations, 5 fly-in communities and dozens and dozens of private strips within 50 miles of Chicago. The Rockford,IL area flight school I am at now is a very active community with a few hundred homes with runway access, about 450 GA (tons of vintage/cool too) airplanes based at the airport and the flight school/FBO with 10 aircraft available.
C152s are 88/wet, C172N for $115/hr wet, C172S is $130/hr wet, Piper Arrow for $140/hr, and the C140 and J3 Cub are each $90/hr and instruction is $50/hr and we make half of that.
C152s are 88/wet, C172N for $115/hr wet, C172S is $130/hr wet, Piper Arrow for $140/hr, and the C140 and J3 Cub are each $90/hr and instruction is $50/hr and we make half of that.
Apophis
Resident Iconoclast
The airport I'm based at (KIWS, West Houston) has always been pretty busy, especially on the weekends. I flew my plane today and when I arrived back in the pattern, I was 5th in line. The airport manager provides a pretty steep fuel discount on Saturdays and Sundays, which really helps to attract business and keep things busy. Things are usually only quiet on bad weather days, and late at night of course.
I've never had to rent a plane here, but last I checked the prices were fairly steep. I think between 170-180 per hour for a G1000 C172SP.
I've never had to rent a plane here, but last I checked the prices were fairly steep. I think between 170-180 per hour for a G1000 C172SP.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
Supply and demand at work. Very cool, though. I've always thought about having a home with a hangar (or a hangar home)...good retirement goal.
tlewis95
I drive planes
I am getting checked out in a 1975 BE-55 in the Chicago area soon. It is $350/hr wet, with new paint, engines, props, interior, G600 glass cockpit with dual 430s.
z987k
Well-Known Member
I've been flying in the valley North of the San Bernardino Mountains, north of LA... near Edwards AFB the last few weeks. I have never in my life seen so many RLA's in one area. At time's they are 2 or 3 miles apart and mostly uncharted. A few even have multiple runways. Landed at Fox and Mojave a few times, and holy crap is GA really alive in that high desert valley.
On another note, I think black may be the most visible paint color for an airplane. I can see the black C-130's 15 miles away in the air.
On another note, I think black may be the most visible paint color for an airplane. I can see the black C-130's 15 miles away in the air.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
GA! I can't believe how fast the price to rent a Baron went up. I did mine in a T-42 Cochise (B55) in '05 for 170/hr wet...and before that in '02-'03 the nice Seneca was 120/hour.
It is amazing how rapidly things have changed in the last decade, compared to how stable prices were for 30 years before that.
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
Wow, thanks for all the info guys, really a wide spectrum out there, but definitely we are not the worst here!
It was in CDN dollars but our dollars are being kept pretty much at par so aside from a billion other factors it's relatively comparable.
I should add prices I listed are including our Canadian extortion tax (14%) on all purchases and is wet rates.
It was in CDN dollars but our dollars are being kept pretty much at par so aside from a billion other factors it's relatively comparable.
I should add prices I listed are including our Canadian extortion tax (14%) on all purchases and is wet rates.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
I kinda threw up in my mouth reading that. In '98, the DOC for the J31 was $90/hr.
GA is alive and well in FL.
scooter2525
Very well Member
GEH. Typo on my part BE-35.
I figure flying clubs would be the place for that. Thanks z987k.
Down the road I would like to buy in to either of those or rent. I really don't have a desire to fly a 172 for recreational use.
scooter2525
Very well Member
That will be fun to fly!
jrh
Well-Known Member
Maybe so.
But when was the last time you heard somebody say, "Wow, these planes are cheap! I'm going to fly twice as much as I used to now!"? And actually follow through with such a statement, of course.
I don't understand the psychology of it, but it seems like people draw lines for what they're willing to pay and those lines are based more on feelings than logic.
It's like if somebody wanted to rent me a King Air for $400/hour. Part of me would say, "What a steal! Multi turbine time! I could take a bunch of friends to Vegas for the weekend for cheaper than the airlines!" But a bigger part of me would say, "Ehh, whatever. I don't need more time. Flying a King Air isn't that fun. I fly plenty of cool planes for free at work. I'd rather put the $400 towards skydiving, or a new computer, or a new car, or whatever."
My point with this is that $400/hour is insanely cheap for flying a King Air around. But I still don't feel like doing it.
Now, it's the same with you and the $130/hour 172. Your local rental place could probably drop the price to $100 and you still wouldn't fly it. Or they could raise the Champ to $65 or $70/hour and you'd probably still take it out. It's all based on the lines you've drawn in your own head, not necessarily what something is actually worth.
The reason I bring all this up is because I think it's harmful to the general aviation industry to be so focused on rental rates. It's a perpetual race to the bottom, the same thing we complain about when it comes to airlines not charging what the seats are worth, or paying their pilots lower and lower wages. Nobody wins during a race to the bottom. The consumer isn't happy because they *always* think it's too expensive, regardless of if it is or not, and the company isn't happy because they keep losing money by not charging enough.
In order to keep GA strong, the focus should be on setting rental rates at a sustainable level on the business end, all while giving pilots nice, fun, useful aircraft that they enjoy flying enough to keep doing it. Raise their expectations rather than lower the price in an effort to match their existing expectations.
jrh
Well-Known Member
Last spring I ferried a Piper Arrow up to Edmonton and talked to the new owner for a while. I was surprised at all the junk Canadian pilots, and especially aircraft owners, have to put up with.
It sounded like it's just generally more hassle and more expense to fly in Canada. More paperwork, more maintenance requirements, more taxes, etc. For instance, take that 14% tax on a $150/hour brand new 172. That's an additional $21/hour. So the same planes, sitting side by side, would cost $150 in the USA or $171 in Canada, based on that single tax alone. I'm sure there are more operating expense differences I'm not aware of.
Canada is an awesome country in many respects, but after a couple trips through Canada, I became very thankful to be based in the US.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I guess that's true. To be honest I wouldn't pay a dollar to rent a 172. I could do my laundry with that dollar. But I would pay the 100 or whatever to go play in a citabria. Same with the king air, I can think of a lot of things $400 could go towards and 1 or two hours of C90 time isn't going to really help me so...... Unless we were already planning on doing the trip and I just happened onto a King air that someone would rent to me for $400/hr.
CDNPilotDave
Well-Known Member
You're renting a Champ for $59/hr? Is that solo? If it is, SHHHHH!!! Where at? That is a deal, both financially and fun-wise.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Yeah, solo. Looks like it's $69/hr now. Peoria, IL. Haven't been there in a year or so. Looks like they have an archer now for $98/hr. 172 and citabria are gone or something.
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
Canada is great but those social programs we have cost me an incredible amount of tax (33% of my gross income) then the 14% we pay on everything we buy oh and add the 7% extra tax on fuel...
tlewis95
I drive planes
(the same place also had a few 2002 Seminoles for $149/hr wet when I did my CMEL over the summer last year. The price on them has gone up to $170/hr or so I think now)
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
It really depends on what your definition of a free, fair and equitable society is. And what your national priorities are. And what you believe the role of government should be. We Americans are about to figure out that there's no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to the (very limited) social welfare system.
Gloom and doom aside, I'd love to rent a Seminole for $170/hour wet.