Looking for info on the Cessna 421C

avi8tor1983

avi8tor1983

Well-Known Member
I am looking for an online POH or anything I can find to study up on the airplane. I tried the search on here but to no avail. I have also tried Google as well, but my web searching isn't the best lol. Thanks for any help and to all JC HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Cheers:beer:
 
What would you like to know. I have over 600 hours in a 1982 421C. Loved the airplane, very honest.
 
Same here...414 and 421 experience...just tell us what you need, I'm sure between some of us we can come up with answers. Is it an earlier C model, or a late model (trailing-link gear).
 
Well I'd love to get my hands on a poh or something to study. If not just any good information. Things to know, power settings for approaches, just basic things to know. I'll be trained but I like to go in knowing all I can to make the transition easier.


Oh and they are newer. I believe 82 and up.
 
Climb Power 32.5" and 1900 RPM Cruise 32.5 and 1800 RPM. Fuel flow is about 23-25 GPH at this setting.The Ram Engines tend to burn a little less fuel. Appoaches fly at 23-25 inches. Approach flaps before the marker. Gear Down at the marker and don't touch the power,will give you about 120-125 knots. The one I used to fly is for sale.Only reason they are selling it is they got a 441. I have a training manual that i might be able to send you Mon or Tues that I wrote. Copied a lot of stuff out of the POH for it. Seems to be happiest about 17,000 to FL210 much higher and that and it isn't to happy. Climbing out at climb power expect about 700-800 feet a min at 135-140 knots that way you can see over the nose. Will hold that climb to high teens. Doesn't really matter how much weight is in it. 206 gallons usable. I miss the one I used to fly it was such a nice stable platform. trim it up and you don't have to touch anything. If I was rich I would buy the one I flew, would be perfect for hauling the family around. As far as the geared engines just don't let the prop drive the engine and make all your power changes slow and smooth and you won't have any problem. We put spoilers on ours and at cruise you could pop them up and start down at 1000 fpm without touching anything else. If you flying the northeast or anyplace the controllers like to slam dunk you I highly recommend them. Lets you keep the engines nice and toasty warm.

If you have any other questions just ask. where are you going for training. I can recommend markette and associates in Valparaiso IN. Bob will also come to your location. Used him for both the 421 and 441.Very knowledgeable person.

Keith

Here is a pic of my baby
 

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avi8tor1983 said:
Well I'd love to get my hands on a poh or something to study. If not just any good information. Things to know, power settings for approaches, just basic things to know. I'll be trained but I like to go in knowing all I can to make the transition easier.


Oh and they are newer. I believe 82 and up.
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I have a pitch/power chart for all the 300/400 cabin class airplanes. I'll see if I can dig it up tomorrow.
 
SurferLucas said:
Same here...414 and 421 experience...just tell us what you need, I'm sure between some of us we can come up with answers. Is it an earlier C model, or a late model (trailing-link gear).
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What were the different weights and usable fuel for the 414? I flew a trailing link model once and can't remember these for the life of me.
 
Fly782 said:
What were the different weights and usable fuel for the 414? I flew a trailing link model once and can't remember these for the life of me.
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You would ask me this on a bad hangover day....hahaha. The usable fuels should be the same between the 414/414A and 421B/C models...they both use the same wings respectively. My 414 has 206 total and 200 useable and a max takeoff weight 6750lbs (max ramp is 6800). I'll have to find my 421 books...but I'll say that what KDoersom posted was spot on for the 421.
 
SurferLucas said:
You would ask me this on a bad hangover day....hahaha. The usable fuels should be the same between the 414/414A and 421B/C models...they both use the same wings respectively. My 414 has 206 total and 200 useable and a max takeoff weight 6750lbs (max ramp is 6800). I'll have to find my 421 books...but I'll say that what KDoersom posted was spot on for the 421.
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Think I had 183 usable on the '77 414. One 20gal locker, 2 aux / 2 main.

When I get back home, I have the Flight Safety Manuals for the 414/421 series Cessnas... if anyone has specific systems or numbers questions.

Both are very easy airplanes to fly... you could literally read the manual, hop in, and you shouldn't have too many problems.

With the 421, I never put the props up on final...
 
ryan1234 said:
Think I had 183 usable on the '77 414. One 20gal locker, 2 aux / 2 main.

When I get back home, I have the Flight Safety Manuals for the 414/421 series Cessnas... if anyone has specific systems or numbers questions.

Both are very easy airplanes to fly... you could literally read the manual, hop in, and you shouldn't have too many problems.

With the 421, I never put the props up on final...
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Yep, the 414/414A, 421B/C all have the option for 1 or 2 wing locker tanks. Ours has both.

With the 414/421, I don't touch anything but the throttles unless I'm preparing for a missed approach/or potential go around. Those engines are very happy with a cool off of 1 inch of manifold for every 2 mins and a 3-4 min cool down on the ground.
 
Just don't turn the aux fuel pumps off. I thought I'd leave the aux pumps in off to save wear and tear on them (options are low, off, high). On the first long trip both engines started sputtering through 10,000 feet. :o

ryan1234 said:
Both are very easy airplanes to fly... you could literally read the manual, hop in, and you shouldn't have too many problems.
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This attitude has killed a lot of people in the 421. I do initial and recurrent training in the 400 series aircraft. The acutal flying is not to bad, but I can "kill" anyone in the aircraft so easily it's scary.

Alex.
 
CK said:
Just don't turn the aux fuel pumps off. I thought I'd leave the aux pumps in off to save wear and tear on them (options are low, off, high). On the first long trip both engines started sputtering through 10,000 feet. :o



This attitude has killed a lot of people in the 421. I do initial and recurrent training in the 400 series aircraft. The acutal flying is not to bad, but I can "kill" anyone in the aircraft so easily it's scary.

Alex.
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Are you talking about fuel pumps on all 421s? Or just the "C" model...

Secondly, can you show me an example of someone who read the manual and flew with no dual and killed themselves? What I can show you is several people who have received less than quality instruction, been overconfident, and killed themselves... or people who just made bad decisions that made no matter to the specifics of that airplane (weather, gear-ups, etc).

The Cessna twins are not extremely complicated (although the early fuel systems did take a few looks at to understand correctly). It is an airplane, a cabin class twin, it comes with a pretty comprehensive manual. If you're proficient in most other twins, the transition is pretty much seemless.

How exactly do you "kill" people so easily in that airplane (something that you couldn't do in another airplane)? It's a pretty honest airplane, flying-wise. Some systems require thought.. but other than that it's a very easy airplane to fly. I don't see the need at all for initial or recurrent training if you are proficient in most twins or any other cabin class twin.
 
ryan1234 said:
I don't see the need at all for initial or recurrent training if you are proficient in most twins or any other cabin class twin.
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I disagree, particularly if you're flying one professionally. I've got about 1500 hours in 402s, and was on the union safety committee at the company I worked for. I could tell you stories of well-trained and experienced professional pilots wrecking them up or coming close to it. I can't go into detail about the "coming close" incidents since those were told to me in confidence (even though I don't work there anymore, it'd still be unethical), but I assure you that there is a reason proper training and 6 month recurrent PCs are a good idea.
 
I don't have the time to read the full reports but here are three that come up searching for "Cessna 421 purchased". I'm sure there are plenty more.

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20060203X00158&ntsbno=CHI06FA076&akey=1

The NTSB specifically points out that he was not checked out in the 421.

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X34171&key=1

NTSB also cites the lack of currency in the 421

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001207X04997&key=1


If you think flying a cabin class twin with no instruction in type is safe, fine, have it at. I have been on the radio yelling to a guy in a Cessna 401 who attempted a single go around to raise the gear and flaps as he dissapeared behind the trees at the end of the runway. I also flew with a guy who got no training in his 421 and would have been killed by the most simple of emergencies.

Are you talking about fuel pumps on all 421s? Or just the "C" model...
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That depends on which fuel pumps it has. If it has the "new" generation fuel pumps, then any 421. If it has the old style, then it shouldn't matter, the two positions were armed (if a drop in fuel pressure they would activate) and high.

How exactly do you "kill" people so easily in that airplane (something that you couldn't do in another airplane)?
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A 421 has an ungodly amount of drag. If you do not put the flaps up and gear up after an engine failure on a mile final, you will be short of the runway. 80% of the time people will be a smoking crater. The other 20% have the balls to suck it up and pull the good engine back. They live but total the plane. Very, very few are trainied to clean the airplane back up. They are the ones that make it to the runway.

What I can show you is several people who have received less than quality instruction, been overconfident, and killed themselves...
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Isn't that exactly what we are talking about? No instruction is just as bad as less than quality instruction, thinking you don't need any training reeks of overconfidence, and being dead is...well being dead.

Alex.
 
CK said:
I don't have the time to read the full reports but here are three that come up searching for "Cessna 421 purchased". I'm sure there are plenty more.

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20060203X00158&ntsbno=CHI06FA076&akey=1

The NTSB specifically points out that he was not checked out in the 421.

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001213X34171&key=1

NTSB also cites the lack of currency in the 421

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001207X04997&key=1


If you think flying a cabin class twin with no instruction in type is safe, fine, have it at. I have been on the radio yelling to a guy in a Cessna 401 who attempted a single go around to raise the gear and flaps as he dissapeared behind the trees at the end of the runway. I also flew with a guy who got no training in his 421 and would have been killed by the most simple of emergencies.



That depends on which fuel pumps it has. If it has the "new" generation fuel pumps, then any 421. If it has the old style, then it shouldn't matter, the two positions were armed (if a drop in fuel pressure they would activate) and high.



A 421 has an ungodly amount of drag. If you do not put the flaps up and gear up after an engine failure on a mile final, you will be short of the runway. 80% of the time people will be a smoking crater. The other 20% have the balls to suck it up and pull the good engine back. They live but total the plane. Very, very few are trainied to clean the airplane back up. They are the ones that make it to the runway.



Isn't that exactly what we are talking about? No instruction is just as bad as less than quality instruction, thinking you don't need any training reeks of overconfidence, and being dead is...well being dead.

Alex.
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This is getting a little ridiculous. The first incident the guy had dual instruction. The second was pilot error.. it is extremely subjective to tell if not having enough dual was the problem. The airplane I fly currently is a 421B model - My first flights in the 421 and 414 were both without dual... I've had several real inflight emergencies...

Any aircraft you can kill yourself in. The 421 doesn't have an "ungodly amount of drag". It simply has drag in certain configurations that can't be overcome by a single engine. There are many, many light twins just like that. The 400 series manuals talk of not doing a single engine go-around after you have put in the second notch of flaps (and gear).

If you're on a mile final and you do lose an engine (I have lost an engine on final in the 400 series btw).. it's not that big of a deal... you simply continue to fly the airplane to the runway. Chances are that when you do lose an engine, unless it's a catastrophic engine failure, it's still producing some power and/or still sputtering... either way it's hard to tell exactly what is going on when you're at 20'' or so. If you were on a 3 degree glidepath to the 1000' mark, unless you have crazy headwinds - you'll be fine in the current configuration making it to the runway... if you can't, you should re-evaluate your typical approaches and/or when you put your last notch of flaps in. Which also is another reason why I don't bring the props full forward on landing.
 
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