Looking for info on the Cessna 421C
- Thread starter avi8tor1983
- Start date
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
It's not unheard of to fly a particular type without dual for the first time... Ag aircraft, WW2 fighters, other single seat aircraft, etc.
My original point was the 400 series Cessnas are fairly easy to fly.
KDoersom
Well-Known Member
I agree that they are easy to fly. That being said there are some things that can bite you fairly easily. If you have a total electrical failure in the 421 can you get the gear down? That is where the dual and ground school comes in handy. Gives you some insight into the systems and how things work with some real world situations.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
I have no doubt that they are. You are also correct in saying that any competent pilot could study the manual for a hour and then safely fly one. However, what CK and the others are saying is that if you haven't been properly trained and something goes wrong, then a pilot who did not recieve good training could easily find themselves up a very smelly creek.
I've flown in a 414 as a MEI without ever sitting in one before. But that was only for a BFR with a very experianced PIC. However if I were asked to fly one on even a part time basis, I would demand some sort of training.
WacoFan
Bigly
I think that hopping into an airplane that you've never flown before is perfectly fine - as long as you practice with MSFS first and try various things like raising the flaps in the flare, not canceling IFR until parked, running LOP and making sure that you don't bust your MSFS personal minimums.
That would have been funny but it was not. That is, read the manual and you are good to go. In light of the statistics with fatal accidents in part 23 light twins when an engine quits. The 421 is a light twin and you can expect only slightly better performance than a duchess, especially heavy. I am sent to Flight Safety every year for ours and feel this is very importaint to stay tuned with emergency procedures at the muscle memory level.
Some tips:
Figure out your acc stop and takeoff and land from 50' distance. Do not go if the former does not fit the runway but it is ok if the latter does not. This gives you a good picture of when to put the gear up (commit). If you cant make the land from 50' gear up happens at positive rate, if you can gear up should happen just before 50'. Anytime the gear is down on takeoff you should abort. At MGW in our airplane it says SEROC is 250 fpm or so depending on temp and alt. The real numbers are 50% of this doing everything correctly. So half your SEROC # and add 40% to your 50' obstacle takeoff and do not use any runways shorter.
Your penalties for gear down on one engine are -250 fpm gear down and prop unfeatherd -400 fpm off the top of my head. That is -650 from +250 which equals -400 fpm untill you can get her feathered so like I was saying your abort point ends when your hand moves from the throttles to the gear lever. And do not do reduced power takeoffs.
The GTSIO 520's must not be run at the neuteral point especially (beetween props driving and engine driving prop) due to the crankshaft counterweight bushings and gear box backlash. Negative thrust is not as bad but not good either. The engines will let you know when they are at this point with a nasty rumbling noise that shakes the whole airplane. Due to this you will be comming in faster and with more power that you are used to. We have a 4000 foot field limit due to this and mainly due to takeoff options. Not a bad idea.
Some numbers that might be usefull to you since you would be unwise to have props driving engines for an extended period of time.
With the props at 1800 rpm the best you can really do is 1200 fpm which is my cruise rpm. If you bring them back to 1600 you can pick it up to 1500 fpm. Why did I not mention MP, because it is at it's lowest value possible to avoid back dragging. This is about 15 in. at 1800 rpm and 12 in. at 1600 rpm. The latter is better in a high speed descent. So it works out to be for approx slope when you gotta get her down fast due to bad ATC or traffic:
4 degree slope at 190 KTAS, 1800 rpm and 15 in hg clean.
5 degree slope at flaps 10 and gear down 145 KIAS(Vle) 1800/15".
6 degree slope at flaps full(Vfe 125 fowlers) and gear down 1800/15"
Leave room to transition to level flight to get to the slower stage.
These are all at 1200 fpm which is about the best you can do w/o exceeding speed. Like I said you can bring the props back and get a few extra fpm's. What sucks is when you are in much turbulence and icing and you get slam dunked. Va is a measly 152 KIAS and the wing is weakened to 2g with flaps down. The gear helps but if the icing gets bad and you need to get the gear up latter on this might not be good.
All in all a very enjoyable machine but you cannot just hop in and go if you plan on being as preppared as you should. I fly a B model and the fuel system sucks with uneeded complexity but the C is much simpler. I might be a wuss but the 421B can be a handfull for single pilot ops in IMC.
Some tips:
Figure out your acc stop and takeoff and land from 50' distance. Do not go if the former does not fit the runway but it is ok if the latter does not. This gives you a good picture of when to put the gear up (commit). If you cant make the land from 50' gear up happens at positive rate, if you can gear up should happen just before 50'. Anytime the gear is down on takeoff you should abort. At MGW in our airplane it says SEROC is 250 fpm or so depending on temp and alt. The real numbers are 50% of this doing everything correctly. So half your SEROC # and add 40% to your 50' obstacle takeoff and do not use any runways shorter.
Your penalties for gear down on one engine are -250 fpm gear down and prop unfeatherd -400 fpm off the top of my head. That is -650 from +250 which equals -400 fpm untill you can get her feathered so like I was saying your abort point ends when your hand moves from the throttles to the gear lever. And do not do reduced power takeoffs.
The GTSIO 520's must not be run at the neuteral point especially (beetween props driving and engine driving prop) due to the crankshaft counterweight bushings and gear box backlash. Negative thrust is not as bad but not good either. The engines will let you know when they are at this point with a nasty rumbling noise that shakes the whole airplane. Due to this you will be comming in faster and with more power that you are used to. We have a 4000 foot field limit due to this and mainly due to takeoff options. Not a bad idea.
Some numbers that might be usefull to you since you would be unwise to have props driving engines for an extended period of time.
With the props at 1800 rpm the best you can really do is 1200 fpm which is my cruise rpm. If you bring them back to 1600 you can pick it up to 1500 fpm. Why did I not mention MP, because it is at it's lowest value possible to avoid back dragging. This is about 15 in. at 1800 rpm and 12 in. at 1600 rpm. The latter is better in a high speed descent. So it works out to be for approx slope when you gotta get her down fast due to bad ATC or traffic:
4 degree slope at 190 KTAS, 1800 rpm and 15 in hg clean.
5 degree slope at flaps 10 and gear down 145 KIAS(Vle) 1800/15".
6 degree slope at flaps full(Vfe 125 fowlers) and gear down 1800/15"
Leave room to transition to level flight to get to the slower stage.
These are all at 1200 fpm which is about the best you can do w/o exceeding speed. Like I said you can bring the props back and get a few extra fpm's. What sucks is when you are in much turbulence and icing and you get slam dunked. Va is a measly 152 KIAS and the wing is weakened to 2g with flaps down. The gear helps but if the icing gets bad and you need to get the gear up latter on this might not be good.
All in all a very enjoyable machine but you cannot just hop in and go if you plan on being as preppared as you should. I fly a B model and the fuel system sucks with uneeded complexity but the C is much simpler. I might be a wuss but the 421B can be a handfull for single pilot ops in IMC.