Looking for Multi Time Building Partner(s) .....

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Pilotin909

Well-Known Member
Im looking to build 70 more hours of multi time and looking for a partner to split costs with.
I have a couple of good deals on a couple of Senecas ...one is out of F70 in So Cal and the other is out of KGEU in AZ.
Im willing to go to either. Ideally I would like to start flying be the year end and finish with the 70 hours by the end of Jan 2011.
But I am pretty flexible. I am also open to to flying with folks that dont need 70 hours and just need 10+ hours or so.
PM me if you want more info

Hoping to get some interested folks

Thanks all :)
 
Pilotin909 said:
Im looking to build 70 more hours of multi time and looking for a partner to split costs with.
I have a couple of good deals on a couple of Senecas ...one is out of F70 in So Cal and the other is out of KGEU in AZ.
Im willing to go to either. Ideally I would like to start flying be the year end and finish with the 70 hours by the end of Jan 2011.
But I am pretty flexible. I am also open to to flying with folks that dont need 70 hours and just need 10+ hours or so.
PM me if you want more info

Hoping to get some interested folks

Thanks all :)
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If all you need is time, there are cheaper alternatives to a Seneca, you need 70 hours I doubt you care how fast you can go or how far.......
 
swisspilot said:
If all you need is time, there are cheaper alternatives to a Seneca, you need 70 hours I doubt you care how fast you can go or how far.......
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I'm open to alternatives ....especially cheaper ones ....????

Any in CA, AZ, or NV????

(Please include make, model, and WET prices :))
 
Pilotin909 said:
I'm open to alternatives ....especially cheaper ones ....????

Any in CA, AZ, or NV????

(Please include make, model, and WET prices :))
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Usually if you can negotiate dry, it's cheaper. Pick the airports you stop at based on cheap fuel and you'll save more than renting wet, especially since most places "wet" rate are only good for so many $ per gallon, which is usually way under the actual cost.
 
z987k said:
Usually if you can negotiate dry, it's cheaper. Pick the airports you stop at based on cheap fuel and you'll save more than renting wet, especially since most places "wet" rate are only good for so many $ per gallon, which is usually way under the actual cost.
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Besides, a lot of places with cheap fuel (Monroe City, MO) are rather interesting...or quaint...
 
Im in the CMA/OXR area and have a B95 available to use. You pay for the gas. Let me know in you're interested.
 
I recently purchased a 1960 Cessna 310. Its a sweet, sweet flying plane. Depending on the power settings it burns 16 gph to 22 gph in cruise. On average it cost under $100 per hour, depending on where fuel is obtained. I need to build hours for insurance reasons. Currently I am just flying my family up to Lake Tahoe to go skiing and snowboarding. I am based out of the Fresno area and I can be in So. Cal. or San Fran. in about an hour. I don't mind traveling to split time. I do prefer to nice long distance cross countries. I mean from So. Cal to New Mexico or Texas where the fuel is under $4 a gallon. 6 to 8 hour flights. Let me know if you have any questions.
 
z987k said:
Usually if you can negotiate dry, it's cheaper. Pick the airports you stop at based on cheap fuel and you'll save more than renting wet, especially since most places "wet" rate are only good for so many $ per gallon, which is usually way under the actual cost.
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a good 20% less..
 
Ive posted about this a few times and some people have contacted me... but it looks like I will be building more time again the late January early Feb timeframe, but of course I'm down in FL so its probably not efficient for you guys to fly all the way out to me.

That said just a couple of quick notes. The cheapest twin I can think of to split time in would be the Apache maybe? I've seen them run as cheap as $170/hr wet around FL though I don't know of any in Miami. At my school we have a turbocharged Seneca for 265 an hour though I can get it a bit cheaper... My boss refuses to rent it out dry though because a few years back a couple guys took it down to the islands and ran it full lean at peak the entire way to save a few bucks on gas and damaged the engines... Something to keep in mind to be careful of.

But again if you make it down this way holler at me!
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Ive posted about this a few times and some people have contacted me... but it looks like I will be building more time again the late January early Feb timeframe, but of course I'm down in FL so its probably not efficient for you guys to fly all the way out to me.

That said just a couple of quick notes. The cheapest twin I can think of to split time in would be the Apache maybe? I've seen them run as cheap as $170/hr wet around FL though I don't know of any in Miami. At my school we have a turbocharged Seneca for 265 an hour though I can get it a bit cheaper... My boss refuses to rent it out dry though because a few years back a couple guys took it down to the islands and ran it full lean at peak the entire way to save a few bucks on gas and damaged the engines... Something to keep in mind to be careful of.

But again if you make it down this way holler at me!
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there's a good Duchess up at FXE and also a seminole. Seminole is at Richard's for 215 and the Duchess at FXE Flight for 230
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
My boss refuses to rent it out dry though because a few years back a couple guys took it down to the islands and ran it full lean at peak the entire way to save a few bucks on gas and damaged the engines... Something to keep in mind to be careful of.
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That's exactly why most places don't rent dry, don't forget the folks who flame out tryin to make it to the next cheapest fuel stop... Better off just payin wet, if you just so happen to find a place cheaper to fill up = money in your pocket, if you get stuck anywhere gas is higher than home base you get money back... and the airplane is safe to fly again and again.
 
MFS said:
if you get stuck anywhere gas is higher than home base you get money back... and the airplane is safe to fly again and again.
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I don't think i've seen a place do it like that for years. Every wet airplane I have rented forever now has had a fixed price they reimburse you, which is often lower than their own price of fuel(although you don't have to pay if you fill up with their fuel.) So it adds a ton of extra cost if you actually take it on a x-c further than 1/2 a tank away.

Also nothing about running at peak egt is going to damage an engine. HP, turbo may need other considerations but peak egt should not damage it, after all that is best economy in a lot of airplanes.(but lets not get into the ROP, LOP debate). If they really wanted to save money they would have figured out if 55 or 65% power and best economy mixture would work out cheapest time + fuel cost. It's as simple as that.
 
z987k said:
I don't think i've seen a place do it like that for years. Every wet airplane I have rented forever now has had a fixed price they reimburse you, which is often lower than their own price of fuel(although you don't have to pay if you fill up with their fuel.) So it adds a ton of extra cost if you actually take it on a x-c further than 1/2 a tank away.

Also nothing about running at peak egt is going to damage an engine. HP, turbo may need other considerations but peak egt should not damage it, after all that is best economy in a lot of airplanes.(but lets not get into the ROP, LOP debate). If they really wanted to save money they would have figured out if 55 or 65% power and best economy mixture would work out cheapest time + fuel cost. It's as simple as that.
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The problem with the damager is that people rent dry not to run at peak EGT, they go past peak to just before feeling the engine change, and run THAT lean to save fuel. I've seen and heard of it done.

If you can save 2 gph , one on each side, it saves you 10 bucks an hour. I would never do that, but like I said, I've seen it done and heard of it before.

For me that's inline with doing aerobatics in non aerobatic rentals. You might not only be putting yourself in danger when you do it, but you also leave other after you in danger. One thing I love about rentals is not having to worry much mechanically.

That's also the thing I hate
 
elmetal said:
The problem with the damager is that people rent dry not to run at peak EGT, they go past peak to just before feeling the engine change, and run THAT lean to save fuel. I've seen and heard of it done.

If you can save 2 gph , one on each side, it saves you 10 bucks an hour. I would never do that, but like I said, I've seen it done and heard of it before.

For me that's inline with doing aerobatics in non aerobatic rentals. You might not only be putting yourself in danger when you do it, but you also leave other after you in danger. One thing I love about rentals is not having to worry much mechanically.

That's also the thing I hate
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There is nothing inherently bad about running lean of peak. Think about it, if you are no longer at peak EGT, the temperature is lower. The problem is that most fuel delivery systems in airplanes aren't precise enough to keep the engine running smooth lean of peak.
 
Eh in the end the easiest way to save gas is throttle back, you can lean the out of a motor and only save a gallon maybe two, but you throttle back 200-300 rpm you're savin four or five... if you're worried bout goin slower, leave 10 minutes earlier... I've heard lots of horror storries of people just trashin plugs, and cylinders from chokin the motor down.

As far as paying wet, I've never done the fuel thing anyother way... say gas is $4.00 at home base, you go out to BFE and get gas for $3.85 = cash in your pocket you just saved .15/gl ... but let's say you get stuck out at some big name FBO and gas is $6.00... when ya get back to home base you give em your reciept and they reimburse you their price of fuel... so at the end of the day you only paid 2.00/gl out of your pocket. That's how I've experienced it, and my students as well. I wouldn't deal with anyone who did it any other way... But that's just me.
 
Religious issues about proper engine management aside...

OP: I'm in the CMA area. If you still need someone to split with, I'm interested.
 
For a good read on LOP operations check out John Deakin's article on Avweb: http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182084-1.html. In fact, he has a lot of stuff worth reading: http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/list.html. As mojo says, the issue is adequate fuel distribution. At my company we operate a couple of planes LOP (with GAMIjectors) and see up to 7 gph (>30%) difference between ROP and LOP for the same (safe) EGT, with a 5kt penalty(<3%). I strongly believe in WOT LOP ops.

With all that said, I have access to an Apache in the Dallas area in the $115 dry range. Anyone interested?
 
Hey I am very interested in this and also the B95 in OXR. I live next to KSNA and have been looking to build time with another pilot. If this is still happening give me a call and we will talk.

Derek Hood
949-293-4648
 
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