Affirmative Action in Aviation
- Thread starter HVYMETALDRVR
- Start date
staplegun
Well-Known Member
More women than brothaz!
That's what I thought!
It's those damn Feminazis!!! That's why I can't get hired...
Kevin
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Obviously
To me, the anti-affirmative action position even in those few unfortunate cases where a more qualified non-minority lost out (often in educational opportunity), always came down to, "I wasn't part of it so it's unfair that I shouldn't be able to take advantage of all those years of discrimination." With "not being able to take advantage of it" being felt as some kind of punishment. Sort of like, "my family stole money for years, but I didn't ,so it's unfair to take it away fro me!"
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
More women than brothaz!
My new hire training partner was a sista, who went to the AF academy and was a tanker toad. One of the sharpest pilots I know and still stays in close touch with my wife. (I'm one of the whitest Irishman you'll ever meet, even though my maternal side of the family is Mexican/Native American desent.)
Aviation, like skydiving is one of the most gender and racial neutral activities out there. You either have the apptitude and desire or you don't.
staplegun
Well-Known Member
Aviation may very well be "one of the most gender and racial neutral activities" in and of itself but that does not mean that those with the aptitude and desire will prevail...
Those that do the hiring for FAR 121 are looking for certain individuals; military pilots (who all have a degree, except maybe Army Warrant Officers who may or may not), 121 experienced pilots with a college degree, pilots who fit a certain demographic...
Aptitude? It may be implied with certain categories. Desire? A given seeing as how they have all applied for the job...
So, I'm guessing, demographics trump "aptitude and desire..."
I reiterate my original contention - it all comes down to those doing the hiring. If they are "fair" the result will be representative of the available pilot "pool."
If not...
Kevin
MFT1Air
Mfalme Soleimani
Excellent perspectives from both posts.
Generally speaking, when one says "aviation" I would be inclined to agree. . .wholeheartedly. Can the same viewpoing be made if you break it into subordinates subsets of aviation. . .Part 135/Corporate flying. Gender/racial neutral as well?
MFT1Air
Mfalme Soleimani
. . .and it IS a rather ticklish, subjective, and strong opinioned subject matter.
atpwannabe
Well-Known Member
Yeah....in a perfect world.
Let's put the bell on the cat folks. Everytime this topic or issue comes up, people start tip-toeing around the margin. There is a DEFINITE HISTORY between the black & white races in this country.....and it is not a pretty one. We are not so far removed from blatant discrimination and Jim Crow laws. Our country (meaning our government), businesses, and individuals are really attempting to level the playing field. America had a chance to address this issue with the Civil Rights Act of 1873. However, the Supreme Court 1883 said that what was passed 10 years earlier was unconstitutional. Now, had we solved this problem then, as oppose to waiting until 1964, just think where this country would be today in terms of racial cohesiveness.
If you look at most HR departments within this industry, most of those in the position of power are white. That's a fact. One can only and would hope that those who are in the position of power would evaluate each candidate based on their qualifications.
Remember: "A healthy, well educated, well nourished labor force is the prerequisite to sustainable economic growth."
This not only applies to the inner cities but to those in the Appalachian trail as well. You can't be sick, dumb and hungry and expect to accomplish anything no matter what the color of your skin is.
JMHO.
atp
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
It's Jetcareers, man!
I have a disdain for hyperbole.
Your face is hyperbolic!
That's the same thing, right?
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
When I was in the Navy I saw some really extreme examples. In my twenties I thought affirmative action was pretty unfair. Now twenty years later, I see why it is necessary. Anybody ever heard of third generation Harvard, Yale, West Point, or Naval Academy? Was George W. Bush's rise only due to his "abilities"?
Kinda hard to be third generation Yale if you were the grandson of a working man no matter what the color.
The most ardent opponent of Affirmative Action I ever met was a black naval officer, who was very opinionated about it. His point of view was his dad returned from WWII worked his butt off and became a millionaire, and he had top fitreps in the Navy cause he earned it. He didn't want or need help, and thought it only perpetuated the problem.
As for me, NOTHING has ever been given to me and I won't look for an excuse or be upset at others success. I will just work harder if I want it.
Kinda hard to be third generation Yale if you were the grandson of a working man no matter what the color.
The most ardent opponent of Affirmative Action I ever met was a black naval officer, who was very opinionated about it. His point of view was his dad returned from WWII worked his butt off and became a millionaire, and he had top fitreps in the Navy cause he earned it. He didn't want or need help, and thought it only perpetuated the problem.
As for me, NOTHING has ever been given to me and I won't look for an excuse or be upset at others success. I will just work harder if I want it.
KLB
Well-Known Member
Sometimes I think back to the Tuskeegee Airmen at the end of WWII. Aviation jobs were plentiful to are former miliatary pilots...of course not to African Americans. An incredible bunch of talented and well educated pilots (all had atleast a bachelors. Many had masters and doctorates) who volunteered to fight in a war to prove that they were equals came back to a country who went on business as usual. Many applied for these newly created aviation jobs and were turned a way or saw the secretary throw their resumes into the circular file.
Even the first African American had to sue to earn the right to interview and get a job flying for an airline. http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?articleID=20080228_5_E3_spanc46213
Even the first African American had to sue to earn the right to interview and get a job flying for an airline. http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?articleID=20080228_5_E3_spanc46213
SmoothLanderJ
Well-Known Member
MFT1Air
Mfalme Soleimani
When I was in the Navy I saw some really extreme examples. In my twenties I thought affirmative action was pretty unfair. Now twenty years later, I see why it is necessary. Anybody ever heard of third generation Harvard, Yale, West Point, or Naval Academy? Was George W. Bush's rise only due to his "abilities"?
Kinda hard to be third generation Yale if you were the grandson of a working man no matter what the color.
The most ardent opponent of Affirmative Action I ever met was a black naval officer, who was very opinionated about it. His point of view was his dad returned from WWII worked his butt off and became a millionaire, and he had top fitreps in the Navy cause he earned it. He didn't want or need help, and thought it only perpetuated the problem.
As for me, NOTHING has ever been given to me and I won't look for an excuse or be upset at others success. I will just work harder if I want it.
I'm believing strongly as well that your naval officer's father's experiences after WWII were the exception (as few and far between as they were) and not the norm. Sure, there were plenty minorities after WWII who did well, but to say minorities faired equally as whites during that time period would be far from true. Cmon now, we all know Thurgood Marshall, Vivien Thomas, Benjamin O. Davis and many other prominent minorities succeed DESPITE the racism. No one is saying it can't happen; what's being said was everyone hasn't received a fair shake over the years. Also, those "successes mentioned?" Wondering how much MORE/further they could have gone if racism wasn't a factor?
Like many of us here, we have been successful because of our abilities first and foremost, someone has to recognize those abilities, but most importantly, someone has to appreciate those abilities COMING FROM ME! That shrinking group of idiots who thought first of color may have made it difficult but not impossible. Sure, maybe a couple of setbacks/defeats/losses for a few, but that's not the norm either thanks to perseverance.
"Remember The Titans!" Everyone remembers Herman Boone; Bill Yoast struggled as well. :bandit:
I had a good post typed up, but I am afriad I will be attacked for it, so I am choosing not to post it in order to not start a JC race riot. So I'll just say this. I am sick of being asked what race I am. You should not be offered any special treatment because of where your ancestors came from, or what race you check on the paperwork. If that is the case, I think my son will now become either African-American or Hispanic/Latino.
What happened was in the past. It's time to get over it and move on with the world.
What happened was in the past. It's time to get over it and move on with the world.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
Broseph, re-read the thread. There is some good stuff to take away from this thread said straight from HR's mouth (thx Diva). Affirmative action is one thing and I agree w/ you 100% on that topic, however I think that's a whole 'nother discussion for the Lav.
I learned quite a bit from this thread, through some first hand knowledge. Go JC!