Gulfstream International Files for Chapter 11

[MikeD]

Agreed. And I do feel the bottom feeders are in almost the same class as Gulfstream, but that is just my opinion. I still do not wish ill will on them; I just wish they had not contributed to the problem.

Agree too. I mean, fry GIA for "bringing down the industry" sure.....they've earned it. But better toss the very next stones at Commutair, Colgan, Lakes, and the employees there too. Same industry drag down, just for different reasons. Yet it seems to some on JC, that some animals are more equal than others. Thats a slippery slope.

 

[Stone Cold]

Agree too. I mean, fry GIA for "bringing down the industry" sure.....they've earned it. But better toss the very next stones at Commutair, Colgan, Lakes, and the employees there too. Same industry drag down, just for different reasons. Yet it seems to some on JC, that some animals are more equal than others. Thats a slippery slope.

As somebody in the Lakes thread going on brought up: there are the bottom feeders, and then there are the bottom feeders that get a pass, for various, yet frivolous reasons (paraphrased by me, not a direct quote).

As I have said in the past, even SWA, the golden child now was the plague and has caused some turmoil at the majors level. What does everybody think the bankruptcy judges were looking at when they slashed everybody's pay and retirement? SWA, JB, etc. 10 years later, and they are everybody's wet dream because now, after all of the pay cuts, SWA is one of the highest pay...nobody seems to remember WHY they are the highest paid.

 

[moxiepilot]

In this industry, wishing fellow pilots lose their jobs is not only classless, but its bad karma too.

Food for thought.

There are a good few bottom-feeder regionals... (edited for length)

Depending how its done, it could be. Just bad form to wish ill will like this.

We have a prominent member here who is former GIA who btw I happen to respect very much. Off with his head too, as he has supposedly hurt the profession as you say? Really?

Bad karma. Classless. Simple as that.

For the company and type of operation. Likely so.

I'm referring to those who are wishing loss of employment to the pilots, yourself included.

It's bad karma to do that, as it will likely come back to bite you in the butt when its your turn to be unemployed.

... (edited for length)

Some here are hating on the company. ... (edited for length)

I just wanted to quote you to see how many times you said the same thing. It's like being a political cheerleader; it seems the more you say something, and the louder you say it - then people start to believe in you (whether you are right, wrong, or deflecting the attention elsewhere)

I get it. You don't think people should be hating on GIA. Ok.

There are some of us who think that anyone supporting a PFJ program, in any role, are dirt. I understand there were street hired folks, but I have as much sympathy for them as I do for a student who flunks a test because they didn't study.

Let us not forget the big picture here. GIA is restructuring so they can stay in business, which ultimately keeps the pay-to-play program a viable drain on the industry. I don't support that and neither do some folks here. You say it's bad karma to wish pilots out of their jobs. This has not happened yet. What has happened is that these folks are still in an institution that brings the profession down, with the gear monkies paying to be there.

So, support GIA or not. Me, I choose not to.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I don't support that and neither do some folks here. You say it's bad karma to wish pilots out of their jobs. This has not happened yet. What has happened is that these folks are still in an institution that brings the profession down, with the gear monkies paying to be there.

You are not alone in your views or experiences.

 

[Pilotforhire587]

Shame on you for bringing furloughed pilots into this arguement.....GIA pilots weren't too concerned about other pilots when they were buying their way into an airline seat...thus prolonging the time honest time builders could advance. All while agreeing to work for less $$.

Shame on who?

:yeahthat:
and I don't think any of us are wishing harm on the folks at Gulf Stream but really, paying to get into the right seat... I know there are a number of other companies who aren't the greatest, who treat their pilots poorly, and managements that seem to only want to make QOL more unbearable. But we still get paid.

 

[Pilotforhire587]

Ridiculous! It's a freakin' Beech 1900D! 9/11 mastermind Mohammad Atta flew PWM-BOS on a Beech 1900 before he boarded the AA flight. Sure, he could have attacked the pilots and used the Beech to slam it in the WTC. But come on, even HE knew it was just a freakin' Beech 1900!

And just two years ago a man who's life was falling apart flew a cirrus into the IRS federal building in Austin, TX. Last time I flew either of these aircraft I am pretty sure the cirrus is much smaller than the 1900, Yet it still killed numerous people and destroyed a building!

 

[Pilotforhire587]

it's a lot closer interpretation, as i never mentioned colgan, but i won't fly them either (that still isn't an exhaustive list). i'm apparently amongst the few who will pay more for mainline. experience issues of crews aside, the regionals are terrible from a comfort point of view, regardless if it's a tp or an rj.

in fact i paid more and am leaving earlier than i need to so i can be on mainline on sunday when i go to recurrent.

either way, as was previously mentioned, that sad part of gulfstream is that they filed chpt 11 and not 7.

Will you fly on Commutair, We fly Dash 8's but our mins are 1500 and 300 and have never had an airplane crash?

 

[Pilotforhire587]

Agree too. I mean, fry GIA for "bringing down the industry" sure.....they've earned it. But better toss the very next stones at Commutair, Colgan, Lakes, and the employees there too. Same industry drag down, just for different reasons. Yet it seems to some on JC, that some animals are more equal than others. Thats a slippery slope.

No offense meant by this Mike, but s a CommutAir Pilot I have to say it used to be a great place to work, Pilots went there to retire back in the day. (This goes for Colgan too) Now that the companies are treating their employees poorly we have both unionized and are fighting for our rights to make us just like "the golden boy prop company" Piedmont. Nough said

 

[MFT1Air]

In this industry, wishing fellow pilots lose their jobs is not only classless, but its bad karma too.

Food for thought.

Spoken by someone with class. Thanks Mike. As an institution of PFJ, not all of those pilots are right seaters having paid for training. I understand man of those captains were hired from elsewhere, yet some would be happy to see those captains lose their jobs simply because of the business policy of the company?

Whoa. . . explain THAT to me?

 

[OldTownPilot]

Do I wish they didn't exist in the first place? Heck yeah.

Will I shed tears for the company? not a chance.

Does it suck for SOME of the employees? yep.

Are there some that I will have no sympathy for? sure

all in all, meh, it happens to some of the best and some or the worst, there is no way that the average employee can change the final outcome, its how you as an individual person deal wit it all, and come back fighting, or wither away in self pity.

 

[NJA_Capt]

Prolonging the time? Lets call a spade a spade. No one is prolonging your time to the regionals, except you as a pilot yourself. You have MANY ways to get there to the regional. Some choose to CFI, others RJ programs, some Gulfstream, others banner tow, etc.

GMAB. Part of GIA's marketing has been to "get the time" so you can advance quicker. It is the poster child for PFJ. Justify it any way you want....but it is lipstick on a pig.

Honest time builders? How about the ones I've encountered.....

So, their schemes make yours less bad? Yea.

I made my decision, took the plunge in 2007, and couldn't be happier. I barely beat the downturn recession of 2008/2009/2010. Had I not done it, I would never have gotten hired at a regional in 2007. Now I sit with 3 years seniority at my current airline.

Thank you for making my point.....The fact that you (and hundreds of others) took a shortcut, advanced you to a position that would have been otherwise been held by someone who chose to stand by their integrity.

Its bad karma, no matter how you dress it up to look nice in order so one can feel good about themselves while doing it.

Or.....

Maybe this is the karma is coming back. The GIA supporters are trying to "dress it up" so they can feel nice about themselves, and some of us aren't buying it.

 

[sr22driver]

And just two years ago a man who's life was falling apart flew a cirrus into the IRS federal building in Austin, TX. Last time I flew either of these aircraft I am pretty sure the cirrus is much smaller than the 1900, Yet it still killed numerous people and destroyed a building!

The wackjob that flew into the IRS building was flying a Piper product. We Cirrus guys get hated on enough around here.
Back to the topic at hand.........

 

[MikeD]

I just wanted to quote you to see how many times you said the same thing. It's like being a political cheerleader; it seems the more you say something, and the louder you say it - then people start to believe in you (whether you are right, wrong, or deflecting the attention elsewhere)

I get it. You don't think people should be hating on GIA. Ok.

There are some of us who think that anyone supporting a PFJ program, in any role, are dirt. I understand there were street hired folks, but I have as much sympathy for them as I do for a student who flunks a test because they didn't study.

Let us not forget the big picture here. GIA is restructuring so they can stay in business, which ultimately keeps the pay-to-play program a viable drain on the industry. I don't support that and neither do some folks here. You say it's bad karma to wish pilots out of their jobs. This has not happened yet. What has happened is that these folks are still in an institution that brings the profession down, with the gear monkies paying to be there.

So, support GIA or not. Me, I choose not to.

Who here is saying support GIA? Certainly not me. So don't attribute words I'm not saying. I just said don't wish ill will on people in the industry lest it come back and bite you later. But do what ever makes you feel better inside.

As Stone Cold said, no one seems to mind the rest of the bottom feeders. They have, and will continue to, get a pass and people running to them for employment....if you want to wax poetic with the hypocrisy of places "bringing down the profession".

And insofar as "anyone who supported a PFJ program in any role" being dirt, as you call it. While I don't agree with PFJ, I certainly don't have any angst against our former GIA member(s) here or consider them "dirt", as they're actually good people. So I wouldn't necessarily broadbrush like that. Are there people at GIA who probably aren't worth the time of day? Sure. Just as there are at any airline.

 

[WacoFan]

It has always been my view that the CAL scabs of 83 destroyed the profession more than any other group of pilots ever have. Sure, Lorenzo is evil, but the CAL scabs proved his business model and his idea that pilots will work for significantly less. PFJ is not good by any means but place blame where it belongs. As long as there are people lined up to take high responsibility jobs for very little pay you are going to have this. The allure of flying airplanes, for whatever reason, makes people fundamentally bad at personal economic math. Why would people borrow the outrageous sums they do to get a low paying job? Why would people spend what they do for their ratings (borrowed or not), then pay GIA for the privilege of doing work, so they could go to Colgan or Great Lakes for $19k annually? If you substituted "Flying" for "Work away from home on a boring job for food stamp wages" would you still pay for the privilege? None of this has ever made sense to me.

 

[MikeD]

The wackjob that flew into the IRS building was flying a Piper product. We Cirrus guys get hated on enough around here.
Back to the topic at hand.........

Another hypocrisy of aviation......people who hate on Cirrus for no real reason but just because.

But thats another topic entirely.

 

[WacoFan]

Another hypocrisy of aviation......people who hate on Cirrus for no real reason but just because.

But thats another topic entirely.

I hate Cirrus for the same reason I hate many airplanes. It has a nosewheel and is powered by a horizontally opposed engine. I can take one or the other if I have to - a radial powered nosedragger (F7F, T-28, B-25, etc) or a horizontally opposed taildragger (Luscombe, Cub, C-180/185, Pitts, etc) but I can't take both.

 

[jhugz]

Will you fly on Commutair, We fly Dash 8's but our mins are 1500 and 300 and have never had an airplane crash?

I don't really have a dog in this fight but they were hiring at 300/30 during the boom, and had a 1900 go down up in New York if memory serves killing a couple.

 

[Cptnchia]

I can take one or the other if I have to - a radial powered nosedragger (F7F, T-28, B-25, etc) or a horizontally opposed taildragger (Luscombe, Cub, C-180/185, Pitts, etc) but I can't take both.

For a second I thought you were going to be hatin' on my airplane, Luscombe 8E.

 

[derg]

It has always been my view that the CAL scabs of 83 destroyed the profession more than any other group of pilots ever have. Sure, Lorenzo is evil, but the CAL scabs proved his business model and his idea that pilots will work for significantly less.

Anyone know the connection between Eastern scabs and Gulfstream?

 

[OldTownPilot]

Yeah, all the people that run the joint are scabs.