Airlines: No more Air Marshals in first class

contactground.9 said:
My buddy is an air marshal, he's a slightly overweight ex marine who turned in an application.

Maybe some of them are super sky-ninjas, but not all of them.
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I posted exactly what the training and the program is for a Federal Air Marshal. Ask your "buddy" where I am wrong and report back. I don't appreciate you changing my quote and having it appear that I said something idiotic which I did not. Rather childish behavior on your part, don't you think?
 
A Life Aloft said:
I posted exactly what the training and the program is for a Federal Air Marshall. Ask your "buddy" where I am wrong and report back. I don't appreciate you changing my quote and having it appear that I said something idiotic which I did not. Rather childish behavior on your part, don't you think?
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not really, have a little fun. The government likes to talk all their training up like it is something better than it is. My "buddy" says that the hand-to-hand is almost exactly what he was taught in the military and the weapons training is a little more intense than what police take.

Sorry you took my comment as a slam.
 
contactground.9 said:
not really, have a little fun. The government likes to talk all their training up like it is something better than it is. My "buddy" says that the hand-to-hand is almost exactly what he was taught in the military and the weapons training is a little more intense than what police take.

Sorry you took my comment as a slam.
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I've seem to hear the same thing too. But I've never interacted with Air Marshals of course...;)
 
contactground.9 said:
My buddy is an air marshal, he's a slightly overweight ex marine who turned in an application.

Maybe some of them are super sky-ninjas, but not all of them.
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I'm fairly confident in saying that an overweight former Marine could kick 99% of the ass aboard any airline.

Not including the fact that he has a gun, and they don't (and shouldn't if they do).
 
Pépé le Pilot said:
Where were those super-duper sky ninjas when that dude blew is balls on that Delta A330 ?
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There were no Marshals on that flight. The bigger question is why Abdulmutallab managed to get on the flight out of Amsterdam after his father had warned the Feds he had become a Muslim fanatic with very radical and dangerous views, he described the other radical Muslims that his son had befriended, that they had lost contact with him, that he feared his son had been indoctrinated and he was afraid that his son might try/be a party to some sort of attack. His Father warned officials that Umar had disappeared and might have traveled to Yemen. He was added to a watch list (but not a no fly list) and had been granted a visa. Why was he allowed to board with no passport and no luggage? He also purchased a one way ticket to Detroit with cash.
 
There seems to be a persistent belief among some that, if someone rushes the flight deck, the rest of the cabin would just sit there dumbfounded. While inflight and pax may not have a response as quick or precise as an AM, post-9/11 experiences have shown that the day of people cowering in their seats are over -- at least in this country.

Richard Reid, Abdulmutallab, some of the more exotic stories I've read in our own airline's reports... people haven't been just sitting their complacently when trouble crops up. It doesn't replace a law enforcement officer, of course, but FAMs aren't the end-all of inflight security.
 
CDNPilotDave said:
Can somebody explain why, if the marshall's raison d'etre is to provide security, the taxpayer should be paying for this? Let the airline create a new "crew" position that carries a gun and protects the cockpit. Seems like a more cost effective solution. What am I missing?
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That position already exits with the grossly underfunded FFDO program. If they expanded the FFDO program then Marshall's could be used more effectively and save tax payer dollars.

CDNPilotDave said:
How do they occupy positions in both the cabin and the cockpit?
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There can be more than zero to an infinite number of marshalls on a flight

contactground.9 said:
My buddy is an air marshal, he's a slightly overweight ex marine who turned in an application.

Maybe some of them are super sky-ninjas, but not all of them.
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So, doesn't mean the man can't fight. It isn't like you can do a roundhouse kick in an airliner. I have several friends that present and retired LEO's. Those who know me, I am not easy to take down and a freakin retired marshall had me on the ground and beggin for mercy in less than 15 seconds in close quarter combat. You don't need to be big, excessivly strong, or incredibly fast. It is all about technique and skill and yes they can outshoot most swat team members.
 
Playing devil's advocat here...

Wouldn't it be easy for a terrorist group to determine who is a threat, air marshal or LEO, when they are on a plane?

Look for (most likely):
-male between the age of 20-40
-physically fit
-clean cut though could be wearing a ball cap to hide the next point
-constantly looking around
-sitting in an aisle seat so to quickly respond to any threat and see the majority of the airplane's passengers
-wearing pants to hide a secondary weapon
-wearing a baggy shirt or a jacket so as to not print
-etc...

I don't see how having an air marshal on a flight makes that flight so much safer...
 
RobertB said:
Playing devil's advocat here...

Wouldn't it be easy for a terrorist group to determine who is a threat, air marshal or LEO, when they are on a plane?

Look for (most likely):
-male between the age of 20-40
-physically fit
-clean cut though could be wearing a ball cap to hide the next point
-constantly looking around
-sitting in an aisle seat so to quickly respond to any threat and see the majority of the airplane's passengers
-wearing pants to hide a secondary weapon
-wearing a baggy shirt or a jacket so as to not print
-etc...

I don't see how having an air marshal on a flight makes that flight so much safer...
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Not all of those assumptions are true. You'd be surprised. The days of an Air Marshal looking like he stepped out of a 5.11 store are in the past. While there are some that fit "the profile", there are many that don't.
 
RobertB said:
Playing devil's advocat here...

Wouldn't it be easy for a terrorist group to determine who is a threat, air marshal or LEO, when they are on a plane?

Look for (most likely):
-male between the age of 20-40
-physically fit
-clean cut though could be wearing a ball cap to hide the next point
-constantly looking around
-sitting in an aisle seat so to quickly respond to any threat and see the majority of the airplane's passengers
-wearing pants to hide a secondary weapon
-wearing a baggy shirt or a jacket so as to not print
-etc...

I don't see how having an air marshal on a flight makes that flight so much safer...
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I've worked with a lot over the past few years.

I'm not going to give any details but the above list is not the case at all.
 
Point taken especially since I am sitting on the other side of the mic and don't see the everyday situations that professional pilots see day in and day out...
 
I don't have any issues having Air Marshals sit in First Class. I don't know how the airlines and the government deal with the revenue loss, but I would hope that the IRS would at least allow the airlines to write off the loss come tax time.
 
I still don't understand why it's not sop to throw on the masks on continous flow, dump the cabin and put any would-be hijackers to sleep. Since the pax masks are garbage above 250 anyway, it's not like they could continue the fight, even if they did put them on. I'm sure the rest of the people in the back would eventually forgive you
 
MikeD said:
Not all of those assumptions are true. You'd be surprised. The days of an Air Marshal looking like he stepped out of a 5.11 store are in the past. While there are some that fit "the profile", there are many that don't.
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Indeed. Having just wrapped up six months in airport ops, and often being the person who a FAM checks in with, you'd be surprised at who you'd see. Some... unexpected personas.

BASElogic said:
I still don't understand why it's not sop to throw on the masks on continous flow, dump the cabin and put any would-be hijackers to sleep. Since the pax masks are garbage above 250 anyway, it's not like they could continue the fight, even if they did put them on. I'm sure the rest of the people in the back would eventually forgive you
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Yeah, but you gotta land that plane eventually. Then what? Hypoxia's not the same for everyone's physiology anyway; it'd be pretty easy to off a few old, young or sick while trying to knock out John Q. Terrorist.
 
I sent my friend the link from this article, and he is confused because he said that the FAMs buy their tickets on the flight last minute, which means at an even higher rate. So this shouldn't be about revenue loss to airlines.
 
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