Sioux80.

Thunder-Robo

Well-Known Member
Dear pilot of N480ND, thanks for racing me to the taxi way, then doing a 15min runup... Heck, even the tower asked you how long you were going to take. Oh, it gets better, you did a great job position and holding on the active for a minute after being cleared for takeoff... again, the tower had to ask you of your intentions.

yeah, great... $50 of my money wasted on the ground.

...you'd think you'd be a better pilot by the time you get into the semi...

Next time you want to do a 15min runup, at least turn the plane a bit so that you don't rock the planes behind you with your propwash.

/rant.
 
Let me tell you something, guy. (And no, I wasn't the pilot of N580ND):

They were doing what they needed to to ensure their airplane was safe for flight. It happens, deal with it.
 
Let me tell you something, guy. (And no, I wasn't the pilot of N580ND):

They were doing what they needed to to ensure their airplane was safe for flight. It happens, deal with it.

Understandable, safety first. Just don't race to get out of the ramp if you know you'll take a while anyways... oh, and stopping on the active for a while isn't the brightest move either.
 
Let me tell you something, guy. (And no, I wasn't the pilot of N580ND):

They were doing what they needed to to ensure their airplane was safe for flight. It happens, deal with it.

You don't need to block taxiways doing a runup. Or to blast them with your propwash.

Have some common sense and taxi out of the way if there is someone behind you.
 
You don't need to block taxiways doing a runup. Or to blast them with your propwash.

Have some common sense and taxi out of the way if there is someone behind you.

Unfortunately, und's policy & procedures has the students do the runup in specified taxiways... I was just POed because he seemed to have intentionality sped up leaving the ramp so that he could get in front of me to get to the runway... (East end of Bravo ramp, turning onto U)

w/e, im over it.
 
Thing is, Seminoles often need a delay on the runway because they practice engine failures on takeoff below VR, so you'll see them power up, start to roll, abruptly turn one way (failed engine) and then hopefully stopping, usually the instructor induces the failure by cutting the mixture and sometimes this means you have to restart the engine.

Also, what runway were you using? At 35R there's that wide spot at the intersection of C and C3, I teach my students to pull in there and do their runup so if there's a maintenance discrep they don't have to take up 35R to taxi back to the ramp. Other than that area though, there aren't any places we can do our runup "off to the side" at GFK.
 
...you did a great job position and holding on the active...

"Line up and wait"
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...you did a great job position and holding on the active for a minute after being cleared for takeoff...
UND takeoff profile in the Seminole calls for stabilizing both engines at 20" manifold pressure prior to takeoff power and brake release. Depending on how many flights the pilot of 580 had done in the Seminole, this can take a little bit if you're unfamiliar with the airplane.

Not defending the crew's actions. Just offering a possible explanation.
 
Unless he was a contract student, that guy spent way more money than you for that 15 minutes. Nobody in their right mind would intentionally take too much time in the SEMI.

Oh...and a SEMI run-up takes a little bit longer than a C172 run-up. Check four mags, feather each prop, cycle each prop...yeaaaaaaaa.

Or the CFI might have been the guy I flew with yesterday who decided one complete pre-flight wasn't enough. Apparently he prefers a dual-verification system where one appropriately-rated guy pre-flights, then another appropriately-rated guy pre-flights, and you have to concur that the aircraft is airworthy. Kinda like if you're launching a nuclear missile.
 
Or the CFI might have been the guy I flew with yesterday who decided one complete pre-flight wasn't enough. Apparently he prefers a dual-verification system where one appropriately-rated guy pre-flights, then another appropriately-rated guy pre-flights, and you have to concur that the aircraft is airworthy. Kinda like if you're launching a nuclear missile.

Trust, but verify my friend. I also do my own preflight of the aircraft before I launch. I usually finish it before the student, but I'm the PIC. I'm trust my student did it correctly, but I'm going to see with my own eyes that he did. No offense to the student, just the way I do it. It's my ticket and butt on the line if he missed something. Four trained eyes are better than two.
 
Yeah, i realize that the runups can take a bit longer in the semi, having done my muti-ifr in one back home... but rarely do i burn more then .1 during the taxi/runup... mind you i flew out of a private strip and the ramp was 300ft away from the runway. I'm not sure what the 'und' runup enlists, but honestly, 15min?

As for the delay on the runway. It was pretty much a minute long... They were cleared for take off on 17L, taxied on, and just fricken sat there until ATC prompted them to GTFO again.

'Line up and wait' isn't in effect yet... is it?

I bet our Aviator from TX would love this... where the heck have you been man?
 
Trust, but verify my friend. I also do my own preflight of the aircraft before I launch. I usually finish it before the student, but I'm the PIC. I'm trust my student did it correctly, but I'm going to see with my own eyes that he did. No offense to the student, just the way I do it. It's my ticket and butt on the line if he missed something. Four trained eyes are better than two.
He was out there with me when I did it. I understand checking fuel, oil, and doing a quick walk-around. I don't understand watching a CFI-applicant do a pre-flight, then doing it all over again (every single checklist item), while the student has nothing to do but stand there and wait.
 
Seriously.... kids these days. Hope you grow out of this by the time you want to apply to an airline.

And... the runway is his and his alone while he occupies it. Takes a bit of time? Oh well. You've probably got a parking brake...
 
Seriously.... kids these days. Hope you grow out of this by the time you want to apply to an airline.

And... the runway is his and his alone while he occupies it. Takes a bit of time? Oh well. You've probably got a parking brake...

By the time i apply for an airline, I wouldn't be paying 150 an hour to sit on the ground. But if i have to pay an extra $50 out of my pocket because someone didn't know their flows and was slightly incompetent...
 
If there is other ground traffic or people behind you I can't see a good reason not to just do the run-up on the ramp, or slightly off it.
I would have gotten yelled at if I did a run-up on a taxi-way with airplanes behind me. Both by ATC and everyone else on the ground. It's just plain inconsiderate.
 
In the OP's defense, Tower's made a big deal about us requesting a delay on the runway for an engine cut...if the crew didn't ask for that, then that's an issue. Otherwise, consider that you're not in any real hurry to go anyplace because of block minimums--think of the extra time you were on the ground as .2 that'll get knocked off of a review flight :p And hey, it could've been a fouled magneto or something on the runup, you never know...although it's definitely a dumb move not positioning the aircraft to keep the propwash away from the taxiway behind the aircraft.
 
I'm not bashing you, just offering my viewpoint on the situation.

Dear pilot of N480ND, thanks for racing me to the taxi way, then doing a 15min runup...Heck, even the tower asked you how long you were going to take.

I'm not sure what the 'und' runup enlists, but honestly, 15min?

Fifteen minutes? That might be a bit of an exaggeration. Also, why would you (in general) be talking to Tower during the run-up? Was that a typo, or did you make that up?

As for the delay on the runway. It was pretty much a minute long... They were cleared for take off on 17L, taxied on, and just fricken sat there until ATC prompted them to GTFO again.
oh, and stopping on the active for a while isn't the brightest move either.
If all that happened was the airplane paused on the runway for a bit, then proceeded and completed the takeoff after that (without any interruptions like stopping again), then the pause was most likely due to this:

UND takeoff profile in the Seminole calls for stabilizing both engines at 20" manifold pressure prior to takeoff power and brake release. Depending on how many flights the pilot of 580 had done in the Seminole, this can take a little bit if you're unfamiliar with the airplane.

-----------------------

...you'd think you'd be a better pilot by the time you get into the semi...
What happens, now, is that students go from the C-172 for 323 straight to the Seminole for 325. I'm sure that you realize that these two airplanes are not the same. You transition from a single-engine airplane with a fixed-pitch propeller to a complex multi-engine airplane with a constant-speed propeller. You're learning new things and dealing with systems that you haven't seen or done during your previous flight training, and there's nothing to help to ease the transition from the C-172 to the Seminole like flying the Arrow for 323.


As you can see, there are some things that you didn't know, yet your complaints were based off of what you thought. Even if the run-up did take anywhere near fifteen minutes to complete, do you know why? Do you know why the Seminole was "racing you" to get to the taxiway? Do you know if the student deliberately didn't turn the airplane during the run-up, or if he just forgot to?

Of course, there is a chance that the reasons behind this situation were the ones that you were complaining about (the airplane purposely trying to get ahead of you, so that the student can do a very long run-up without turning the airplane to the side to try to piss you off and make you waste your money), but you don't know this.

My intention is not to bash you, but to help to open your eyes a little. Don't let your perceptions (and your emotions) get the best of you.

:)
 
Haha. Nope, seriously, 15min... I wrote the time down on my knee board with intentions of using it when opening my flight plan. I ended up opening with the 'Time off' given to my by the 1000, nearly 16minutes later. And yes, i was on tower when doing my runup, we were both holding short of 17L already.

As far as it stopping on the active... It could have been what they were doing... they just took a heck of a long time doing it.

I wonder if i could pull up the archives on LiveATC or w/e that site's called. I was in 43.
*edit* flightaware has me opening up the flight plan at 17:31 for my 5:15 launch... so it's somewhere in there.
 
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