"Cleared direct Lubbock."

FullDeflection

FullDeflection

Well-Known Member
On an IFR plan during my instrument training...my instructor and I were flying the Kingdom 7 SID from KADS (Addison Airport, north Dallas). We got out past the Bravo and were immediately cleared direct to Lubbock. Only problem is, I had filed and recieved LBB (Lubbock VORTAC) as the last navaid on my plan.

When the controlled said that, does that mean I was cleared to the airport itself? Or to the VORTAC? My instructor said I was cleared to the airport, but he couldn't give a reason why.
 
that's incorrect.... cleared to lubbock is clearance direct the VOR called Lubbock.
you're cleared to the airport if they say cleared direct lubbock airport... or cleared direct destination
 
While agree with the above posts, I will say I have been cleared to "Grand Stand". (KCRE) Which is the airport itself and they didnt add airport to the end.

Although they knew we had gps capabilities so that might have made a difference.
Although if there is a VOR near it usually they will clarify.
 
I am based at KADS also and have been based in the Dallas area almost all of my career. We go to several fields that have VOR’s near the airport. KACT, KMDD, KLBB ect. Center will almost always say cleared direct Waco or Lubbock ect. I always go to the airport unless they say VOR. It is rare that center will say VOR. Center or approach has never asked me why I am going to the airport and not the VOR.
 
I am going to say the controller meant the airport. Without clarification you are allowed to do either, it will be the controller at fault if there was a problem. I would suggest reading back "Cleared direct XXX airport" if you don't get a correction you're in the clear from any problems. We do it lot (personally I usually mean the airport when it is the destination) however the VOR and airports are mostly co-located.

Like I said read-back whichever works better for you and you are covered.
 
Here's how I understand it. If you are going to KLBB and they clear you "direct Lubbock", you go to the VOR, not the airport. If they want you to go to the airport, they would say "cleared direct to the Lubbock airport". I have heard in some cases when they'll clear someone direct to an airport without specifying, but in those cases it's because there is not a VOR on the field and it would be clear where to go.
 
beechpilot said:
Yeah exactly. Our instrument trainer is /A as well, so that's what we have to do. Otherwise we get vectors for the field and in either case, they specify.
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The family airplane is /A - thus, "Cleared direct Blank" is a clearance to Blank VOR unless (1) otherwise specified and (2) accompanied with a heading.

I am looking for a written (regulatory) clarification of this one, though.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
The family airplane is /A - thus, "Cleared direct Blank" is a clearance to Blank VOR unless (1) otherwise specified and (2) accompanied with a heading.

I am looking for a written (regulatory) clarification of this one, though.
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Yeah, I don't remember the exact wording, so I'd be interested to see how it's written.
 
beechpilot said:
Yeah, I don't remember the exact wording, so I'd be interested to see how it's written.
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I'm filtering through FAAO 7110.65T and I can't find it (I've spent a lot of time head down in that one today, cool stuff actually) although I'm not overly familiar with the layout of the document

I think this covers it though.

4-4-1. ROUTE USE
Clear aircraft via routes consistent with the altitude stratum in which the operation is to be conducted by one or more of the following:
(...notes, references omitted...item a, ATS routes, omitted...)
b. Radials, courses, azimuths, or direct to or from NAVAIDs.
PHRASEOLOGY -
DIRECT.
VIA;
(name of NAVAID) (specified) (RADIAL/COURSE/AZIMUTH) ...
(...items b-h omitted...)
i. Fixes/waypoints defined in terms of:
1. Published name; or
2. Degree-distance from NAVAIDs; or
3. Latitude/longitude coordinates...or
4. Offset from a published or established ATS route at a specified distance and direction for random (impromptu) RNAV routes.
PHRASEOLOGY -
DIRECT (fix/waypoint) ...
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Consider Concord (-Buchanan) where the airport and VOR are not in the same place. I don't have any real reason to believe this other than a fundamental "it makes sense" argument, but I read the above as follows:
Air Carrier 207 cleared direct Concord
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= Proceed directly to the Concord (CCR) VOR.
Air Carrier 207 cleared direct Concord airport
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= Proceed directly to the Concord airport (KCCR) - hope you're RNAV (/E /F /G /R) equipped, or on a vector.

NOTE: There's some disagreement in the house of Blue about this one - the various pilots in the house are not sure about this. If in doubt ask for clarification — please don't hesitate!

4-4-6, Direct Clearances, is not overly interesting (surprise) - it merely deals with things like ground stops.
 
beechpilot said:
That's interesting information. It makes sense with what we've been saying.
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I'm starting to think the FAA order about ATC should be mandatory reading for anyone who flies IFR a lot, to accompany relevant portions of the AIM.

One can easily be misled in this situation...IMO, if a VOR and an airport are not co-located, they need different names and different (three letter) identifiers so as to avoid confusion in writing too.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I'm starting to think the FAA order about ATC should be mandatory reading for anyone who flies IFR a lot, to accompany relevant portions of the AIM.

One can easily be misled in this situation...IMO, if a VOR and an airport are not co-located, they need different names and different (three letter) identifiers so as to avoid confusion in writing too.
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It seems that the renaming when not co-located is being done. In my area, Colorado Springs VOR has been renamed "Back Forest" (BRK) and "Las Vegas" in NM renamed "Ft Union" (FTI). And while JeffCo airport was renamed "Metro", the VOR name remained "Jeffco"

I remember some discussion a few years ago on this.

The 3-letter identifiers are less of a problem since, at least with GPS (and I don't think it's that relevant in other contexts), all-letter airports are 4 characters.
 
beechpilot said:
Here's how I understand it. If you are going to KLBB and they clear you "direct Lubbock", you go to the VOR, not the airport. If they want you to go to the airport, they would say "cleared direct to the Lubbock airport". I have heard in some cases when they'll clear someone direct to an airport without specifying, but in those cases it's because there is not a VOR on the field and it would be clear where to go.
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I second this... If you were filed to the Lubbock VOR, on your flight plan, when you are cleared "direct to Lubbock," you are being cleared directly to that portion of your IFR flight plan then whatever is beyond... You are not being cleared to the Lubbock airport...
 
RobertB said:
I second this... If you were filed to the Lubbock VOR, on your flight plan, when you are cleared "direct to Lubbock," you are being cleared directly to that portion of your IFR flight plan then whatever is beyond... You are not being cleared to the Lubbock airport...
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RobertB is correct because you are being cleared direct to a fix position (navaid)... remember you have not been cleared direct to a destinations runway... I've seen a lot of regionals fly direct and once the airport was in sight cancel IFR, and then contact tower for the straight in or occasionally an opposite direction, saving themselves a little time...
 
Autothrust Blue said:
IMO, if a VOR and an airport are not co-located, they need different names and different (three letter) identifiers so as to avoid confusion in writing too.
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I've heard rumors that the FAA is slowly renaming VORs that are not collocated with their respective airport. Has anybody else heard anything like this?
 
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