RC Plane and Real Plane Collide Over Runway

Good morning Gentlemen....

some of the responses in this thread indicate an ignorance of RC.....

Most RC people really love everything that flies.... models, "Full Size".. helicoptors... everything....

I have flown "RC Demos" with a 40% Scale Extra, 40% Su29 and a 2 meter electric plane at several Airshows....

it isn't unreasonable, for an RC pilot, who thinks he has "Show Center" during an airshow to hover over the runway.....

I bet when the Pitts (or whatever it was) flyer did his demonstration, he had a reasonable expectation there wasn't gonna be an RC Plane located smack in the middle of his sequence....

I have also flown demos at airports....

Once at the Big Bear Airport... I hovered and harriered over the runway.... for my 6 minutes....

Once at Edwards Openhouse.. (250,000 spectators)...I hovered and harriered over the runway.... for my 6 minutes....

I have flown 2 years at the Apple Valley Airshow.....I hovered and harriered over the runway!! .....for my 6 minutes....

3 times at the Cable Airport Airshow... I hovered and harriered over the runway!! ....for my 6 minutes....

http://www.giantcircus.com/Videos/SX-Cable-2009.wmv

Each one of these events, we had good communication and coordination with the management of the event.....

When the Models flew... WE HAD RIGHT OF WAY on the Runway/in the Airspace....

A Mayday of course would precipitate a quick landing... or in some instances, we discussed a "Safe Zone" to fly out of the way in the event of a mayday...

regardless of what the RC pilot said in the above video.... he was directed by the airport management to "Fly his Demo".... the RC pilots expectation of Airspace Exclusivity is reasonable.... (As mentioned above... a mayday of course would take precedence!!)
So, IMHO, this was a case of poor planning, poor communication, no discussion of contingencies.....
also people hav emade mention of NOTAM's or waivers or whatever.....

Most RC Pilots are "Hobby'ists".... we look to airport management/Airshow directors to give us guidance on "how, when, where and why" at an airshow.......

The failure was clearly poor planning and poor communication...

IMHO, the biplane pilot flew out of turn, either on his own failure or via misscommunication with the "Airboss" and either he or the managers of the airport owe the RC guy reimbursement.....

Fortunately there were no physical injuries!!!

regards

http://www.giantcircus.com/VIDEO_PAGE.htm
 
AMA membership ---> REVOKED!!!

Assuming he is a member, I wonder if the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) insurance will cover any damage to the "Full Scale". If I remember correctly, There was a 3 mile rule that simply meant that you weren't aloud to operate any rc aircraft within 3 miles from an airport.
 
Mithrandir said:
Good morning Gentlemen....

some of the responses in this thread indicate an ignorance of RC.....

Most RC people really love everything that flies.... models, "Full Size".. helicoptors... everything....

I have flown "RC Demos" with a 40% Scale Extra, 40% Su29 and a 2 meter electric plane at several Airshows....

it isn't unreasonable, for an RC pilot, who thinks he has "Show Center" during an airshow to hover over the runway.....

I bet when the Pitts (or whatever it was) flyer did his demonstration, he had a reasonable expectation there wasn't gonna be an RC Plane located smack in the middle of his sequence....

I have also flown demos at airports....

Once at the Big Bear Airport... I hovered and harriered over the runway.... for my 6 minutes....

Once at Edwards Openhouse.. (250,000 spectators)...I hovered and harriered over the runway.... for my 6 minutes....

I have flown 2 years at the Apple Valley Airshow.....I hovered and harriered over the runway!! .....for my 6 minutes....

3 times at the Cable Airport Airshow... I hovered and harriered over the runway!! ....for my 6 minutes....

http://www.giantcircus.com/Videos/SX-Cable-2009.wmv

Each one of these events, we had good communication and coordination with the management of the event.....

When the Models flew... WE HAD RIGHT OF WAY on the Runway/in the Airspace....

A Mayday of course would precipitate a quick landing... or in some instances, we discussed a "Safe Zone" to fly out of the way in the event of a mayday...

regardless of what the RC pilot said in the above video.... he was directed by the airport management to "Fly his Demo".... the RC pilots expectation of Airspace Exclusivity is reasonable.... (As mentioned above... a mayday of course would take precedence!!)
So, IMHO, this was a case of poor planning, poor communication, no discussion of contingencies.....
also people hav emade mention of NOTAM's or waivers or whatever.....

Most RC Pilots are "Hobby'ists".... we look to airport management/Airshow directors to give us guidance on "how, when, where and why" at an airshow.......

The failure was clearly poor planning and poor communication...

IMHO, the biplane pilot flew out of turn, either on his own failure or via misscommunication with the "Airboss" and either he or the managers of the airport owe the RC guy reimbursement.....

Fortunately there were no physical injuries!!!

regards

http://www.giantcircus.com/VIDEO_PAGE.htm
Click to expand...

Well I hope for the rc pilots sake that you are right concerning the biplane. My rc collection has been "parked" in storage for a couple years now. Damn things are so expensive and require so much work space to maintain.
 
Several times... the phrase "Toys" has been derogatorally used to describe a model.....

these are sophisticated pieces of equipment that you aren't gonna find at any Toys'r'us.....


maybe someday, the full size Extras, Edges, Suhkois will be able to match the performance of these "Toys"??
 
SRA_kbad said:
AMA membership ---> REVOKED!!!

Assuming he is a member, I wonder if the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) insurance will cover any damage to the "Full Scale". If I remember correctly, There was a 3 mile rule that simply meant that you weren't aloud to operate any rc aircraft within 3 miles from an airport.
Click to expand...

As mentioned above.... the AMA coverage indeed extends to this activity.... and I doubt his AMA membership is in any way endangered.....

Wouldn't the Bipeplane pilot or the airport have insurance?

I wonder if the Biplane pilot has a ground level waiver?
 
Toys? These are not toys you get at wal mart. These are high powered models. But anyway this was just a poor organized event.
 
I also fly both RC and "the real thing professionaly".... many in the RC community are "full scale pilots too.... some for fun.... some do it for a living".... this was a charity event.... there were no notams.... the RC pilot was flying in his alloted time slot.....the Pitts wasnt supposed to be there..... It was just bad control of the sitution by the air boss... although bein an unconrolled field the Pitts pilot didnt have to be in radio contact..... they say the Pitts was going around?....smoke-on....really?.... just a huge lack of communication... and an unfortunate inccident.... im glad nobody was hurt...If i was the guy flying the RC plane i would be pissd too.... the runway was supposed to be closed so he could do his demo.....unless it was an emergency the Pitts shouldnt have been there ..... and since smoke was on i dont believe there was an emergency..... I say bad job by the air boss.... again glad
 
People, get off his attitude already. Like others have already stated, one of the first things you hear him say is, "I COULD HAVE KILLED THAT PILOT."
 
Mithrandir said:
As mentioned above.... the AMA coverage indeed extends to this activity.... and I doubt his AMA membership is in any way endangered.....

Wouldn't the Bipeplane pilot or the airport have insurance?

I wonder if the Biplane pilot has a ground level waiver?
Click to expand...

Cool!
And like other's have said, this was just a very poorly executed event.
 
Mithrandir said:
When the Models flew... WE HAD RIGHT OF WAY on the Runway/in the Airspace....
Click to expand...

I am both an airline pilot and fly giant scale RC. By the FARs you NEVER have the right of way over real airplanes.

regardless of what the RC pilot said in the above video.... he was directed by the airport management to "Fly his Demo".... the RC pilots expectation of Airspace Exclusivity is reasonable....
Click to expand...

Unless it is a controlled airport real airplanes will always have right of way. However, if it is a towered airport then the airspace is controlled and airplanes can be directed.

IMHO, the biplane pilot flew out of turn, either on his own failure or via misscommunication with the "Airboss" and either he or the managers of the airport owe the RC guy reimbursement.....
Click to expand...

Absolutely not! Once again, at a non-towered airport the real airplanes will always have right of way because the the airspace is uncontrolled. If anything the RC pilot owes the Pitts pilot reimbursement.
 
Mithrandir said:
I wonder if the Biplane pilot has a ground level waiver?
Click to expand...

You don't need a ground level waiver to land, execute a go-around or low approach. Everything the Pitts pilot did was legal by the FARs.

Also, since this was an uncontrolled field then the air boss actually has no authority to direct traffic. He can coordinate it but can not clear an airplane to take off or land. Also, unless the airport was NOTAM'd closed then the Pitts had more of a right to be there than the Slick.
 
poser765 said:
Everyone is so quick to judge. He did show concern for the pilot of the pitts, so lets all dismount our high horse.

Put in his shoes I bet each and every one of you would be more than miffed at the situation if close to $10k of your stuff was destroyed in an instant.
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Not for nothing but if I were to put myself in his shoes, I wouldn't have been standing on a runway and operating my RC airplane over same unless the runway in question had yellow X's at each end. If that makes my horse high, then I guess I'm going to have buy a ladder.
 
I would recomend at least a 6 foot high ladder :beer:
 

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riddle2012 said:
Well you full scale guys can't fly rc
Lol. I have had so much trouble trying to train rc pilots that came from the full scale life.
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After you spend 50+ hours of flight training, and another 100+ hours of ground instruction to just get you feet wet, you comments will have some validity. I flew RC before I flew the real thing. RC is MUCH eaiser than shooting an approach down to minimums.

facepalm_anim_test-03.gif
 
JoelT said:
I am both an airline pilot and fly giant scale RC. By the FARs you NEVER have the right of way over real airplanes.

Unless it is a controlled airport real airplanes will always have right of way. However, if it is a towered airport then the airspace is controlled and airplanes can be directed.

Absolutely not! Once again, at a non-towered airport the real airplanes will always have right of way because the the airspace is uncontrolled. If anything the RC pilot owes the Pitts pilot reimbursement.
Click to expand...


I'd love to agree with you Joel, but the Airboss delegates the right of way at a show. Like has been said, the only airplane that would have the right of way over all others here would be one in distress.
 
Much like Chuck Norris, I have right-of-way no matter what I'm doing - Flying a real plane, flying RC, or taking a bath. I even have right of way to places I intend to go but haven't gotten around to yet.

RC is awesome. My grandpa and I decided we'd get into it for fun and we would go to a weekly breakfast in the summer, and then ever two weeks would go to an RC flying field. This thread is a little bit of wang measuring between pilots and RC pilots (and I think it's important to note that RC pilots do in fact have wangs...they are just at a max of 40% scale) - but I will tell you that it was a lot of fun to fly RC. Most fun was seeing my Grandpa - Mr. 30k+ hours from B-25's to DC3's to Connies to Jets completely mangle some airplanes. We built Ugly sticks and I actually did better than he did and we'd end up reparing his between lessons. I (and the others) would give him a ration of poop like "Ha ha...guess it isn't quite as easy as a Connie (or T-6/DC3/Martin/727)" and he would just take it. Then, in the Waco (or Chief, or Howard, or anything) he would trow it back - "Ha ha...guess it isn't as easy as an Ugly Stick". Once (at slow speed) I groundlooped the Chief (I was 14, head up my butt...end of the roll-out and caught a gusty x-wind). We were just real slow, he let it develop and go - didn't correct me - and I asked "why?" He said - "I wanted to let you see how quick it can go bad...and I want to have something to tell the guys next time y'all are giving me crap about crashing the Ugly Stick." Thus was my education in aviation.
 
Mithrandir said:
Several times... the phrase "Toys" has been derogatorally used to describe a model.....

these are sophisticated pieces of equipment that you aren't gonna find at any Toys'r'us.....


maybe someday, the full size Extras, Edges, Suhkois will be able to match the performance of these "Toys"??
Click to expand...

1. Do you need a special, commercial license to fly these "models" for compensation or hire? Didn't think so.

2. Is there even any occasion to fly these "models" for compensation or hire? Didn't think so either.

3. Are your toys capable of pulling enough G's to rip the wings and/or epmennage off the, uh... aircraft? No? Then don't even think to compare them to real aerobatic airplanes.

VATechPilot said:
People, get off his attitude already. Like others have already stated, one of the first things you hear him say is, "I COULD HAVE KILLED THAT PILOT."
Click to expand...

I've watched the video twice and that's one thing I never heard anybody say. Maybe I need to turn up my speakers.
 
Mike H said:
1. Do you need a special, commercial license to fly these "models" for compensation or hire? Didn't think so.

2. Is there even any occasion to fly these "models" for compensation or hire? Didn't think so either.

3. Are your toys capable of pulling enough G's to rip the wings and/or epmennage off the, uh... aircraft? No? Then don't even think to compare them to real aerobatic airplanes.



I've watched the video twice and that's one thing I never heard anybody say. Maybe I need to turn up my speakers.
Click to expand...
A good and humble post.
 
Mike H said:
1. Do you need a special, commercial license to fly these "models" for compensation or hire? Didn't think so.

2. Is there even any occasion to fly these "models" for compensation or hire? Didn't think so either.

3. Are your toys capable of pulling enough G's to rip the wings and/or epmennage off the, uh... aircraft? No? Then don't even think to compare them to real aerobatic airplanes.



I've watched the video twice and that's one thing I never heard anybody say. Maybe I need to turn up my speakers.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily directed at you, nor is it an attack - but why do people feel the need to denigrate something in order to build their thing up? Modelers are awesome people - and I have an affinity for them. I will also tell you that if you are ever going to restore an antique airplane (for real) it is always nice to know one or two people that are modelers - particularly scratch builders. They have a unique way of looking at things and solving problems - some wonderful craftsman can be found in that group.

But, I digress - why is it important to denigrate modelers to defend airplanes? Why is it important to denigrate Christianity to defend Islam? Why is it important to denigrate Danica McKellar to promote Carrie Underwood? I've never understood the line of reasoning that says "I must prove my superiority by proving my opponents inferiority".

And seriously, not picking on you - you just had the clearest post to demonstrate what I was talking about. I do it at times as well - I just try to limit it.
 
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