Flight control malfunction

[MikeD]

So another question, has anyone ever checked the or trim for proper operation prior to a flight?

Required to each flight for my aircraft, insofar as cockpit operation and rigging, as well as trim cutouts and overrides for the electric side and such.

 

[BaronPete]

I do find it interesting that so many NTSB reports blame the pilot (even if in part) for anything thatbcould POSSIBLY be seen or checked. Saw it once on a cracked manifold incident. Pilot "should" have seen it on a preflight.

So another question, has anyone ever checked the or trim for proper operation prior to a flight?

I haven't, but I will if I'm ever told that cables have been rerigged since my last flight. Would I have before reading that? Probably not. Then again, the only thing I've flown are SE Cessnas. No excuse, but it just has never been on a checklist other than "Set trim tab for takeoff"

 

[BaronPete]

Other accidents due to a loss of flight controls (Wikipedia UA 232 page):

• In 2003, OO-DLL, a DHL Airbus A300 was struck by a surface-to-air missile shortly after departing from Baghdad International Airport, Iraq. The missile struck the portside wing, rupturing fuel lines and causing the loss of all three hydraulic systems. With the flight controls disabled the crew was able to use differential thrust to execute a safe landing at Baghdad. This is the first and only documented time anyone has managed to land a transport aircraft safely without working flight controls.

This is nothing short of awesome. Obviously, not the fact that it was him with a SAM, but the fact that crew landed it. Kudos to them!

 

[MikeD]

a DHL Airbus A300 was struck by a surface-to-air missile[/URL] shortly after departing from Baghdad International Airport, Iraq. The missile struck the portside wing, rupturing fuel lines and causing the loss of all three hydraulic systems. With the flight controls disabled the crew was able to use differential thrust to execute a safe landing at Baghdad. This is the first and only documented time anyone has managed to land a transport aircraft safely without working flight controls.

This is nothing short of awesome. Obviously, not the fact that it was him with a SAM, but the fact that crew landed it. Kudos to them!

Was on the ground at BIAP and watched that happen.

Post #9 here.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/genera...lane-leaving-baghdad-airport-damaged-sam.html

 

[ColoradoPilot]

This is nothing short of awesome. Obviously, not the fact that it was him with a SAM, but the fact that crew landed it. Kudos to them!

That is impressive. I hope they got some big commendations for that. Those are the moments that pilots make their pay (or why pilots don't get paid enough - depending on your view of the situation )

 

[BaronPete]

Was on the ground at BIAP and watched that happen.

Post #9 here.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/genera...lane-leaving-baghdad-airport-damaged-sam.html

I imagine it to have been pretty awful seeing that unfold..feeling helpless, etc.

P.S.

Where can I find your "So, there I was" stories, Mike? I've been running searches, but, unfortunately, those are some pretty common words. I've read them before, but I reread from time to time.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

One of the first few Cirrus (maybe the first) parachute deployments was due to a loss of aileron control or something. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20021008X05290&key=1

During cruise flight, the left aileron separated from one attach point, and the pilot executed a forced landing to a field. Prior to the accident flight, the airplane underwent maintenance for two outstanding service bulletins. During compliance with one of the service bulletins, the left aileron would have been removed and reinstalled. The pilot confirmed with the service center personnel that the maintenance on the airplane was completed and then proceeded to preflight the airplane. After departure, the airplane was level at 2,000 feet mean sea level (msl) for approximately one minute, the pilot noticed that the airplane began "pulling" to the left, and the left aileron was separated at one hinge attach point. The pilot then flew the airplane toward an unpopulated area, shutdown the engine, and deployed the aircraft's ballistic parachute system. Subsequently, the airplane descended to the ground with the aid of the parachute canopy and came to rest upright in a field of mesquite trees. Examination of the left aileron and the airframe aileron hinges revealed that the outboard aileron hinge bolt was missing, and no evidence of safety wire noted. According to maintenance manual procedures, the bolt and washer hardware were to be torqued to a measured 20-25 inch pounds, then safety wired to a actuation fitting. After installation, the manual required a verification of proper hinge bolt installation and torque on the outboard hinge.

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:

The improper reinstallation of the left aileron by maintenance personnel. A contributing factor was the non-suitable terrain for the forced landing.

 

[subpilot]

A contributing factor was the non-suitable terrain for the forced landing.

I hate how the NTSP adds stupid stuff to there reports that has nothing to do with the event.

My wife must have taken a page from the NTSB playbook because she does the exact same thing when we have arguments.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

Ask AF one morning about how his trim was rigged backwards in the Chieftain once.

Dude is lucky to be alive, but Amflight is also lucky that it happened to one of their best pilots.

Flight control check before takeoff?

Doesn't sound like the best pilot to me if he missed that.

 

[WildcatPilot]

Flight control check before takeoff?

Doesn't sound like the best pilot to me if he missed that.

Sounds as if the flight controls were working properly, but the trim was backwards. I've never included the trim in my "flight controls free and correct" check, although it seems that might be prudent.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Flight control check before takeoff?

Doesn't sound like the best pilot to me if he missed that.

550 hours in your profile. Everyone's frickin Chuck Yeager at 550 hours. Thank God all the CFIs are around to remind us of how to fly an airplane. I'm sure nothing bad will ever happen to you, Maverick.

 

[Lead]

Sean Tucker had to bail out because of one http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/leadnews/191942-1.html

 

[PositionAndHold]

Flight control check before takeoff?

Doesn't sound like the best pilot to me if he missed that.

We have the same check on the Lear 45. Guess what? You can't see the ailerons from the cockpit, or the elevator or the rudder. See what I'm getting at? We check to see if the spoilerons activate base on their position on a display in the cockpit. That and the trim are the only flight controls we can tell the position of (from the cockpit, after engine start). It's a two crew aircraft and no where in the checklist does it have one of us wiggle the ailerons and the other check their position from the outside. So, on most if not all transport category A/C I can only assume it's the same.

Yes, I realize a cheiften isn't transport category, but having never flown one I can't assume you can see the controls. Remember, less talky, more reeedy. I mostly lurk on here as I KNOW I have a ton to learn and less to comment on. Even with my ATP and type.

 

[ColoradoPilot]

We have the same check on the Lear 45. Guess what? You can't see the ailerons from the cockpit, or the elevator or the rudder. See what I'm getting at? We check to see if the spoilerons activate base on their position on a display in the cockpit. That and the trim are the only flight controls we can tell the position of (from the cockpit, after engine start). It's a two crew aircraft and no where in the checklist does it have one of us wiggle the ailerons and the other check their position from the outside. So, on most if not all transport category A/C I can only assume it's the same.

Yes, I realize a cheiften isn't transport category, but having never flown one I can't assume you can see the controls. Remember, less talky, more reeedy. I mostly lurk on here as I KNOW I have a ton to learn and less to comment on. Even with my ATP and type.

I remember during ME training in the Seminole, we could only "see" the elevator/rudder by looking at the shadow on the ground. Out of luck at night. (Though with a light plane like that, often I could feel the nose dance around when conditions were right while doing the controls check).

 

[seagull]

We have the same check on the Lear 45. Guess what? You can't see the ailerons from the cockpit, or the elevator or the rudder. .

I think people that haven't flown larger aircraft don't realize this. If I press my head hard against the side window, I can just BARELY see a wingtip on the MD-11, and it has better visibility than a lot of aircraft.

In terms of flight control malfunction, there have been a few incidents related to flight control computer coding in FBW aircraft, which would count for these purposes, I think.

 

[mshunter]

Had a friend die in Europe for what we think was a flight control malfunction. She was practicing for a competition in a borrowed airplane and never came out of the spin.


There are quite a few schools that teach EMT (Emr. Man. Taining) that deal with this kind of thing specifically. It's deffinatly not money wasted.

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

I can't find it in the NTSB database, but I once heard of some type of business jet that had the yaw damper computer wired backwards following maintenance on that component. The non-flying pilot engaged it after takeoff, and the rudder went full deflection. Not sure the outcome.

 

[Roger, Roger]

To those who say that a backwards trim SHOULD have been caught on preflight:

Have you ever preflighted a Chieftan? Do you know what the trim tab will look like in the takeoff position? Do you even know what the tab should look like on the plane you fly in the takeoff position? Do you know if your tab could be rigged backwards and the indicator still work properly? That is the case on most SE Cessnas and Pipers. Can you, off the top of your head, during a quick preflight, look at that tab and guarantee that it's moving the right way?

Granted, if an airplane had come out of mx and I KNEW that flight control work was done, I would probably check EVERYTHING visually and functionally, including trims to full deflection. However, flight crews are not always privy to that exact information. And even if they are, one would hope that maintenance got that right-as they should have, but apparently did not in the incident that jtrain mentioned.

 

[MarkE]

I'm studding for the ATP and one of the questions asks about NTSB reports and flight control malfunction. I think this is probably one of my largest concerns in aviation. In college, a lot of accident studies were covered, but none attributed flight control failure as one of them. Has anyone seen an accident that was due to a cable snapping or something along those lines?

I've heard of ailerons being installed in reverse, and I guess there is that video on the 'net that has an airbus go into a forest during a demonstration...

Not exactly a cable snapping but Alaska 262 and UAL 585 come to mind for flight control failures.

 

[mshunter]

Flight control check before takeoff?

Doesn't sound like the best pilot to me if he missed that.

Do us all a favor and stick to flying cessnas. I fly a Chieftain and you can't see the elevator from the cockpit. What would you suggest, put the parking brake on and me go to the back, open the door and look. Or maybe freak out all my pax and open up the crew door and have a peek?

I just love it when people armchair stuf like this. You know why I don't tell Boris how to fly a Mitsu? Because he does and I don't. Sheesh!