Putin claims T-50 superior to F-22

[imatworkallday]

Keys can't touch each other on the keyboard.

I recall one of my supervisors having to create a login where this actually was one of the password requirements.:insane:

 

[jynxyjoe]

Is this T-50 going to have anywhere NEAR the radar the F-22 has?

 

[ppragman]

But how many T-50s can the Russians produce per one F22? If they can flood the field with airplanes that are nearly as good as our equipment, then they'll make up for detriments in quality with quantity. This is a very Russian thing to do historically.

EDIT:

Wikipedia says one F-22 costs 150mil, and one T50 costs 100mil.

Ohhh, and for the additional cost of the F22 program (65bil) as opposed to the Russians at 10billion you could buy 550 of the things and still not exceed the cost of the F22 program.

 

[Orange Anchor]

But how many T-50s can the Russians produce per one F22? If they can flood the field with airplanes that are nearly as good as our equipment, then they'll make up for detriments in quality with quantity. This is a very Russian thing to do historically.

That was when they had money. Now, the Chinese?
That is a completely different matter. They have the
money, the technology, the capacity to build and most
important, the INTENT.

This is their J-10, no slouch in the air.

and they are building LOTS of their Su-27 knock-offs which are reportedly comparable to the newer Su-20MK.

The T-50 is a test bed. Remember too, the forward sweep Sukhoi that appeared in the 90s was supposed to be
the be-all, end-all fighter and it never went
beyond the initial test bed.

 

[Hacker15e]

their Su-27 knock-offs which are reportedly comparable to the newer Su-20MK.

They're not just "comparable" to that...that's, in fact, exactly what they are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKK

A pretty bad-arsed fighter.

What we also need to be worried about is this little beauty right here, China's copy of the AMRAAM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PL-12

 

[hook_dupin]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65G64820100617?type=politicsNews

I love that the Russians still play such games. The last report I heard was that the T-50 won't have an engine that allows for supercruise until 2016 at the earliest. Not to mention the fact that the existing engines render the "stealthy" design useless.

The T-50 beats the F-22 in one important area: exportability. Its not the T-50's comparison to the F-22 that is scary...it's Sukhoi's desire to market it to anyone with the money that is scary. As far as the engines not being stealthy: realize that half the design of an LO engine is designing a serpentine intake that does not allow a radar to see the front fan blades. The intake is then coated with RAM to reduce radar effects. The T-50 has a serpentine intake. Sure, it has a conventional engine with a conventional augmenter and nozzle section that leads to added signature in the tail aspect. The advantage is that the T-50 will field 5 years earlier than if they'd insisted upon a ducted exhaust. They may later decide to re-engine the type.

 

[The Fez]

The T-50 beats the F-22 in one important area: exportability. Its not the T-50's comparison to the F-22 that is scary...it's Sukhoi's desire to market it to anyone with the money that is scary. As far as the engines not being stealthy: realize that half the design of an LO engine is designing a serpentine intake that does not allow a radar to see the front fan blades. The intake is then coated with RAM to reduce radar effects. The T-50 has a serpentine intake. Sure, it has a conventional engine with a conventional augmenter and nozzle section that leads to added signature in the tail aspect. The advantage is that the T-50 will field 5 years earlier than if they'd insisted upon a ducted exhaust. They may later decide to re-engine the type.

Oh, I certainly agree that the Russian's ability to produce a lot of T-50's and sell them to anyone with the cash to buy them is an important point. My initial comment was simply pointing out how "showy" the Russian's always are with their new toys. Didn't they have some big Soviet-era style parade not too long ago?

Good info on the engine intakes. Thanks.

 

[jynxyjoe]

The T-50 beats the F-22 in one important area: exportability. Its not the T-50's comparison to the F-22 that is scary...it's Sukhoi's desire to market it to anyone with the money that is scary. As far as the engines not being stealthy: realize that half the design of an LO engine is designing a serpentine intake that does not allow a radar to see the front fan blades. The intake is then coated with RAM to reduce radar effects. The T-50 has a serpentine intake. Sure, it has a conventional engine with a conventional augmenter and nozzle section that leads to added signature in the tail aspect. The advantage is that the T-50 will field 5 years earlier than if they'd insisted upon a ducted exhaust. They may later decide to re-engine the type.

Jeesh, I'm just curious though, without the radar that's on the F-22 is the T-50 really that big of a competitor? I mean, we are starting to sell the F-22 (without the radar) to the highest bidder.

 

[frog_flyer]

EDIT:

Wikipedia says one F-22 costs 150mil, and one T50 costs 100mil.

Ohhh, and for the additional cost of the F22 program (65bil) as opposed to the Russians at 10billion you could buy 550 of the things and still not exceed the cost of the F22 program.

Quick math lesson from LT FF here.

$65,000,000,000 program.

183 jets.

65,000,000,000,000 / 183 = just north of 355 mil a copy.

Enjoy!

Yes, I'm sure there's MX and parts, etc included, but the 150 mil a pop figure is BS.

 

[ppragman]

Quick math lesson from LT FF here.

$65,000,000,000 program.

183 jets.

65,000,000,000,000 / 183 = just north of 355 mil a copy.

Enjoy!

Yes, I'm sure there's MX and parts, etc included, but the 150 mil a pop figure is BS.

Quoting wikipedia. That's what it lists as the "unit cost." That might mean to produce another one tomorrow will cost 150mil. The 355mil includes the R&D costs.

 

[ryan1234]

Is this T-50 going to have anywhere NEAR the radar the F-22 has?

Word from the grapevine is that the radar they have is very capable.

 

[subpilot]

I just generated a statistic that the Air Force loses 3.4 million man-hours per year from airmen trying to create passwords that meet the strict requirements for such top secret sites such as mypay and afportal.

15 or more characters.
three chinese characters.
one number and special character
One backward Russian e
Keys can't touch each other on the keyboard.
Can't form a word in any language
Can't form a word backwards, inverted, or diagonally (watch the backwards russian e... it can hose you)

Oh, and you're not supposed to write down these ridiculous passwords because it's a security hazard.

Good game.

But then you can just reset it by knowing a persons SSN and DOB. :rotfl:

 

[Orange Anchor]

Jeesh, I'm just curious though, without the radar that's on the F-22 is the T-50 really that big of a competitor? I mean, we are starting to sell the F-22 (without the radar) to the highest bidder.

Since when? I was out at Lockheed this past week and asked about the program. Still no sale to Israel and even though the Japanese said they would pay almost twice the price, no sale.

The assembly line is within the last 30 machines and end of production will probably come in 2012 unless new orders are signed. The last machine will be -195 on the tail.

 

[frog_flyer]

But then you can just reset it by knowing a persons SSN and DOB. :rotfl:

I got a parking ticket on base yesterday on which they put my full legal name, address, driver's license number, social security number, and the name of my favorite childhood pet.

Seriously? Anyone ever heard of identity theft?

 

[jynxyjoe]

Since when? I was out at Lockheed this past week and asked about the program. Still no sale to Israel and even though the Japanese said they would pay almost twice the price, no sale.

The assembly line is within the last 30 machines and end of production will probably come in 2012 unless new orders are signed. The last machine will be -195 on the tail.

Aero News and the last copy I read of Space Technologies and Space pornography are the two places I remember reading about it. The sales were strictly airframe, although I hadn't heard anyone buying them yet. Is Lockheed (with the permissions of the US gov) taking orders or not? I assume if Israel and Japan were making offers that someone told them that the aircraft was for sale.

EDIT: http://forums.jetcareers.com/general-topics/91590-report-congressmen-working-sale-f-22-israel.html

 

[Orange Anchor]

Is Lockheed (with the permissions of the US gov) taking orders or not? I assume if Israel and Japan were making offers that someone told them that the aircraft was for sale.

The spokesbeing (not wanting to be specie-ist) said they have no additional orders. I had read that Israel and Japan were pressing to place orders for the airplane but Congress had said NO exports. Japan wanted them badly enough to pay 2X for the machines.

And unless orders are placed soon for additional aircraft, Lockheed will begin closing down the long-lead supply chain.

On another mattter, Lockheed does not seem too worried. They have significant orders for the -130J which they say should have been named differently because except for appearance, it is a completely different airplane. On one mission, they used 2 Js and 4 Es. The Js burned about 1/3 the fuel of the Es and thus had longer legs or quicker times enroute.

And more.. they have begun building the wingboxes for the F-35 in Marietta. IF Lockheed reaps any returns on an out-of-production machine like McDoug did with the DC-10 and MD-11s, there may be more money in support than in building.

 

[Hacker15e]

Word from the grapevine is that the radar they have is very capable.

With a single airframe, and only in the early stages of test flight, I don't think it's possible to even yardstick that capability at this time.

Until it's actually employed in test and eval against other living airborne targets, it's really impossible to know.

 

[ryan1234]

With a single airframe, and only in the early stages of test flight, I don't think it's possible to even yardstick that capability at this time.

Until it's actually employed in test and eval against other living airborne targets, it's really impossible to know.

I understand what you're saying... and if anyone would know it would probably the guys in the fight (i.e. you guys)...I think the speculation came from Sprey or Sweetman...and it based on prior development stuff from different aircraft and weapon systems.