"with you..."
It's Departure Leg, not Upwind Leg
- Thread starter Douglas
- Start date
"with you..."
Minuteman
I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT AUTOMOTIVE LIGHTING!
In the spirit of contentiousness...
PROTIP: If you truly don't care about an issue, you keep your flanhole shut and move along.
By bothering to wonder who cares, you are taking the position that standard phraseology is not important or does not concern you. So, ironically, you care that others want to get it right.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
Is it a big deal? No. It is hardly a deal at all.
Though, some pilots are interested in proper phraseology and may just drop a "departure leg" the next time they fly in the pursuit of continuing to get things a little more accurate.
This forum is a great teaching tool and a great way to get information across. Not to mention that this is the CFI forum and each instructor can and does influence the quality of radio transmissions by setting examples. One of you can influence 10 future pilots.
or maybe you are in dasleben's shoes and you wouldn't know what that pilot is communicating, well now posters and silent readers know "Departure Leg" and that is and was the purpose of the thread.
Hearing other flight instructors say, "Who cares" about proper phraseology is a little irksome. As TGray pointed out, this is in the same line as Biennial Flight Review. It is not the end of the world, it's the CFI Corner.
"Last Call" .
.
.
.
.
Joking
Though, some pilots are interested in proper phraseology and may just drop a "departure leg" the next time they fly in the pursuit of continuing to get things a little more accurate.
This forum is a great teaching tool and a great way to get information across. Not to mention that this is the CFI forum and each instructor can and does influence the quality of radio transmissions by setting examples. One of you can influence 10 future pilots.
or maybe you are in dasleben's shoes and you wouldn't know what that pilot is communicating, well now posters and silent readers know "Departure Leg" and that is and was the purpose of the thread.
Hearing other flight instructors say, "Who cares" about proper phraseology is a little irksome. As TGray pointed out, this is in the same line as Biennial Flight Review. It is not the end of the world, it's the CFI Corner.
"Last Call" .
.
.
.
.
Joking
Mike H
Well-Known Member
[Ron Burgundy]I will fight you! [/Ron Burgundy]
schweet!
SkyFlier33
Well-Known Member
:clap:
tgrayson
New Member
Yes, it is. Teachers are supposed to disseminate knowledge and I find it disappointing, even startling, when a teacher indicates a lack of respect for accuracy. It makes me wonder about the reliability of the other information they're passing out.
While this particular point may not be a big deal, being the sort of person who corrects his own errors when they are pointed out IS a big deal.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
I teach safe pilots, not anal retentive.
400A
New Member
jhugz
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that you disagree with tgrayson's post?
Yes...
When the AIM becomes regulatory I will agree w/ this statement.
Until then I will continue to train "safe" pilots that don't use "tree" & "fife" on the radios. Just because it's spelled out in the AIM doesn't mean it's critical to safety. If they can get the point across over the radio w/o blocking comm's for 5 minutes I don't care what they say. I let my students say "any traffic in the area please advise", "left final", "wilco", as long as it's appropriate and there is a clear, concise, message delivered over the freq.
400A
New Member
I will set aside the idea that the AIM isn't regulatory.
Using your examples, is it really any "harder" to say tree vs three. Yes, the AIM does allow for "brevity" for the sake of brevity, but in my experience it is a rarely needed, for lack of a better term, loophole.
I'm sure you teach your students that if they can hold 3550 feet, they can hold 3500 feet. Why not teach the same level of precision to all aspects of flying?
wrxpilot
New Member
Well, if you're flying out of a non-towered airport with helicopters flying an opposite pattern (a common occurrence), they probably care. Calling the departure leg the "upwind" leg will potentially cause a lot of confusion, as they (the helos) might think you are on their downwind flying towards them.
Contrary to popular opinion on Jetcareers, it does matter...
TXaviator
Well-Known Member
wait.. whats wrong with saying "last call" on the end of your last report in a nontowered area?
i think it helps convey the impression that im leaving the area and not listening any more... of course, im never convinced that anyone ELSE in the pattern is listening anyway...
i think it helps convey the impression that im leaving the area and not listening any more... of course, im never convinced that anyone ELSE in the pattern is listening anyway...
Are you saying that you disagree with tgrayson's post?
I'm sorry to hear that.
I'm wondering if maybe you didn't really read what he wrote and just responded to what you thought his point was going to be?
poser765
Well-Known Member
Why would you need to tell me you are leaving the area after, most likely, telling me you are leaving the area. When you say "departing the north" I really don't expect to hear from you again. G'day and s'long. I really don't care that it's your last call. It doesn't bother me because of brevity (it takes 1.2 seconds to say "last call") but it bothers me because of it's complete uselessness. It ranks right up there with "with you" in redundancy and uselessness.
Just following this old post I had the same question and was always instructed my departure upwind. While the AIM 4-3-2 leaves no doubts, dasleben's response is a good one. My approach, as I am a CFI in training, is to ensure my students know the difference between departure leg and upwind. But I think I will use dasleben's approach in ensuring they use upwind as to not confuse the overwhelming majority that either is not aware or care to know the real difference Any thoughts from experienced CFI and/or pilots....
I had the same question and was always instructed my departure upwind. While the AIM 4-3-2 leaves no doubts, dasleben's response is a good one. My approach, as I am a CFI in training, is to ensure my students know the difference between departure leg and upwind. But I think I will use dasleben's approach in ensuring they use upwind as to not confuse the overwhelming majority that either is not aware or care to know the real difference Any thoughts from experienced CFI and/or pilots....