Some Resume' Advice for you guys...

Good luck with WN. I know a few guys that work the ramp at LAX for WN and not only do they love their jobs, they make a small fortune. :)

It's true, man. I LOVED working the ramp there, and if I lost my medical and couldn't get a sim instructor job or something else, I'd probably try to go back to doing that.
 
What's wrong with a gmail account?

Not everyone can have a "paid" internet account for their resumés, especially since some of us move often.

(firstname)(middleinitial)(lastname)@gmail.com is my e-mail address... I fail to see what makes it unprofessional.

:yeahthat:
What the heck is wrong with Gmail? What other options are there?
 
I'd like to share a few tips and recommendations regarding pilot resumes, cover letters and applications. I am definitely no expert resume writer, but I have gotten a lot of practice and feedback from employers over the past year. I have followed all of these guidelines below and it has worked for me!

· When sending resumes/applications via e-mail, don’t just attach the file and send it off. Put something in the subject line and actually write something in the body of the e-mail, unless the instructions specifically stated not to. You don’t have to write an essay, a simple paragraph or two expressing your interest will do.

· When sending out cover letters, I'd like to address is to an actual person, instead of the standard “Dear Sir or Madam or To Whom it May Concern”. Call the company or do a search to find out the names of HR person, Chief Pilot, etc. There is a great web site called http://aviationsupport.com it has all the companies with the names of Chief Pilot, Director of Ops, operating certificate, fleet makeup, etc.

· Make sure your resume is professional, organized and easy to read. Highlight key qualifications and your special kills. With the amounts of similar looking pilot resumes companies are getting these days, you have to stand out. Be creative! Don’t use a generic MS Word/Works or pilot resume template off the Internet. Although the format of most pilot resumes is fairly standard, there are things you can do to the organization and appearance of your resume to stand out from the crowd.

· Verify several times that you don't have any errors or mistakes on your resume/cover letter. I have seen people put the wrong company name in their objective or cover letter, not using correct punctuations, or not reading directions on applications correctly.

It is a lot of work, but if you put in the time and effort, it will pay off!
 
If you're applying for a company that uses screening software or even a application service, applying for a job which you are not qualified for is largely a waste of time. If you see how the system actually works, you're not even on the radar. Remember companies use those services to break down the amount of time spent separating the "OMG, if you pay for my commercial, I'll work for free"/"Rapid approaching my commercial certification" from the desirable applicants.

I'm not even kidding.

They're probably using those services and techniques to filter out unqualified applicants. I'm totally pulling this statistic out of my butt, but I wouldn't be surprised that out of 10,000 applicants that are on file for the average major airline job, at least 33% don't meet the requested qualifications of the job posting.

Actual facts I have to back that up? None! :)

However, I've had a few interesting opportunities to talk with some pilot recruiters and they're absolutely deluged with correspondence. It's almost like broadcasting your personal email address on a Yahoo! message board and saying, "Hey! I have $100,000 to invest, can someone contact me about what I should do with this money?" and then watching the tsunami of spam flood in.

Long story short, if you apply before you're qualified for a company which uses an application service or uses electronic resume screening, they're not going to even know you're there.
 
What's wrong with a gmail account?

Not everyone can have a "paid" internet account for their resumés, especially since some of us move often.

(firstname)(middleinitial)(lastname)@gmail.com is my e-mail address... I fail to see what makes it unprofessional.
Because anything else is completely unprofessional and just looks tacky. Back when I was doing hiring, my rule was if the first part of the email was not derived from the name on the resume, it went in the trash. "cmiller@..." was accepted if the person's name was "Chris Miller" or something like that. "pilotman45" or even "pilotchris" not so much.

If the domain on the email was gmail, yahoo, etc, it went in the trash. Take the extra effort to register a more presentable domain. Also, if you're using a university email it was accepted if the first part was your real name, but only if you were actually still at that university. If you listed on your resume that you graduated in 2006 and you were still using your university email, it went in the trash.

My line of thinking is that this is a professional organization that is only interested in hiring professionals, and having a professional email address is part of being professional.
 
I've screened resumes from people with way less than half my experience that had over 7 pages. My view on reading those is that these people can't be GOOD at all of this stuff; rather, they've seen it or read about it , so they slapped it on the resume. That resume is fairly useless, except as a way to get past automated screening software.

I have a two page resume as well, the long one mainly serves to get past recruiters and HR departments. When I lengthened it, I noticed the the follow up rate from headhunters was about 10 fold.

The stuff I work with (Oracle and SAP) just has so many moving parts. Unfortunately, it isn't enough to say you know E-Business Suite 11.5.10.2 - most customers want to know every module you have worked with and when.
 
If you're applying for a company that uses screening software or even a application service, applying for a job which you are not qualified for is largely a waste of time. If you see how the system actually works, you're not even on the radar. Remember companies use those services to break down the amount of time spent separating the "OMG, if you pay for my commercial, I'll work for free"/"Rapid approaching my commercial certification" from the desirable applicants.

I'm not even kidding.

They're probably using those services and techniques to filter out unqualified applicants. I'm totally pulling this statistic out of my butt, but I wouldn't be surprised that out of 10,000 applicants that are on file for the average major airline job, at least 33% don't meet the requested qualifications of the job posting.

Actual facts I have to back that up? None! :)

I can back this up. A few years back, I was looking for my next gig and cast a broad net. One place asked in the net application "Do you have 1000 hours Total Time?" I was just a little bit short of that, but I was honest and clicked 'No'. I figured my previous 121/turbine experience would be considered as mitigating.

Wrong. Got an auto-response thanking me for my interest but telling my un-qualified arse to go elsewhere.

Not to be deterred, I went back through and re-did everything. This time, however, I just clicked 'YES' to the Total Time question, then in the 'Additional Remarks' block explained myself.

Got an invitation to interview. Several, in fact, including a few after I politely informed them that I had accepted a position elsewhere.

So yes, Doug's right. An no, that doesn't mean that will always work. I just figured I'd see if I could game the system. YMMV
 
Can't really agree with that. People often post an unrealistic wishlist; very often a particular skillset isn't as critical as they think it is. If screener sees something else he likes, he may call the applicant anyway. If that doesn't work with a particular screener, who cares? You end up with the same result, no interview, so there's no downside to gambling.

All the rest I agree with. Personally, though, I think that the interview process is of questionable value...you might as well roll a pair of dice to figure out whom to hire.

I agree - Bill - I know it sucks to deal with as a resume screener, but as an applicant (you've been one, right? ;)) Taylor is right on.

With the amount of jobs people are sending out applications to they can't know something about every company. News flash, even though the economy sucks a good candidate is interviewing YOU to find out about your company just as much as you are interviewing them.

However, most companies will set up a phone interview (usually via email) and won't just call you randomly. Once it is set up you'll have plenty of time to research them.

And if they did call unannounced I'd simply say this wasn't a good time for me to speak and ask them to set an appointment - that way I would have the opportunity to become better prepared.
 
Interesting debate. The particular positions I'm looking to fill are for a specific skillset in the telecommunications sector. Wanted to address some of the discussion here because I think not all items being discussed are congruent for all fields...

Can't really agree with that. People often post an unrealistic wishlist; very often a particular skillset isn't as critical as they think it is.

Sometimes this is true, although in my particular case, I've emphasized in the job description that I REQUIRE TECHNICAL experience with telephony.

I got a dozen resumes from people who have never seen a phone system before. People who were project managers in construction and software engineering. I'm sure those people are hardworking folks who are good at their fields (given what I saw) but I simply do not have time to work with someone who does not understand the language of the position.

If screener sees something else he likes, he may call the applicant anyway. If that doesn't work with a particular screener, who cares? You end up with the same result, no interview, so there's no downside to gambling.

All the rest I agree with. Personally, though, I think that the interview process is of questionable value...you might as well roll a pair of dice to figure out whom to hire.

Actually, I do have one guy I shortlisted because even though he had SOME telephony, he had some other skillsets that I did like. I had a phone conversation with him and got a good vibe. We will do a second round of phone interviews. But regardless what you feel about the interview process, it's the only way to look for things that will set off alarm bells and determine if you can work with that person. It's like airline interviews: when you get the interview, the airline assumes that you know how to fly. They want to know what kind of personality you have.

With the amount of jobs people are sending out applications to they can't know something about every company. News flash, even though the economy sucks a good candidate is interviewing YOU to find out about your company just as much as you are interviewing them.

Why the hostility?

Interviewing/hiring is a transactional process. There's buying and selling on both sides. The applicant who does some due diligence to learn about the company has the advantage of talking to the interviewer in their own language, and mating their CV to specific needs of the company.You ABSOLUTELY should know something about EVERY company you apply to for exactly these reasons. Another reason for this: if you don't know anything, you look like a shotgunner, which makes you look lazy.

We want an applicant with initiative and the ability to think on their feet. The applicant who takes the time to learn about the company is GOING AFTER the job. The applicant who sits back and displays the attitude of "I don't need to know about you, you need to impress me..." - man, I just don't have the time to impress him. I have other resumes to look at.

True story here: when I was 18, I interviewed for a job with America West at DFW for a ramper job. A couple days before the interview, I went to the library and learned everything I could about AW. The history, the fleet size and types...everything I could find.

In the interview, the VERY FIRST QUESTION he asked me was, "So what do you know about America West?"

I knew a lot. His jaw dropped.

He asked two or three more questions, smiled, and said I had the job.

Unfortunately, they laid people off the following week so I couldn't start. But at least I got the offer.

Due diligence makes a WORLD of difference.

And as far as not sending in a application if you don't meet every requirement, that is just bad advice. Had I fallowed that myself and many others ould probably be unemployed still.

Indeed. But - if the description specifies mandatory experience, and you do not have that, you have just wasted yours and the employer's time. They ask for at least a baseline of requirements for a reason.

Get an email address that is something like: (first name)(last name)@(not gmail, hotmail, yahoomail or sexdungeon.com)

Yahoo, Gmail, MSN and Hotmail are all widely-accepted public email services in my field. I have absolutely no problem with those domains. Your example of fluffybunnykiller is funny, and I'd probably raise an eyebrow about that, but a general first/last name at gmail is definitely not a problem for me. Can't speak to others' positions on that, but in IT/Telecom, it's pretty common.
 
I don't have a problem with gmail per se, although anyone can sign up for any gmail account that's available with no proof of who they are and no way of tracking them down if they scam you. Perhaps that's just my bias from being from "the old internet," where you couldn't sign up for accounts or do business with anyone from a hotmail account because everyone thought you were a scammer. In those days if you wanted a web based email address you had to sign up for it with a non web based email address! At the time I wondered why I would be signing up for an email address if I already had one... but now I understand.

Some places still send gmail, yahoo, hotmail etc. straight to the spam folder. You may be able to get them to venture into the spam folder for it later. If you pay for internet access chances are you have more than one email account included.

My point was that by making your email address look professional it's one less thing you're going to have to answer for with your attitude and knowledge at the interview... and if you have an unprofessional email address you may not get one at all.
 
Get an email address that is something like: (first name)(last name)@(not gmail, hotmail, yahoomail or sexdungeon.com)

I know all your friends know you as fluffybunnykiller@hotmail.com or something like that but to an interviewer that doesn't reflect well and you'll be playing catchup. It's probably not a good idea to use your current work email address either. You can imagine what that tells your potential employer.

I don't have a problem with gmail per se, although anyone can sign up for any gmail account that's available with no proof of who they are and no way of tracking them down if they scam you. Perhaps that's just my bias from being from "the old internet," where you couldn't sign up for accounts or do business with anyone from a hotmail account because everyone thought you were a scammer. In those days if you wanted a web based email address you had to sign up for it with a non web based email address! At the time I wondered why I would be signing up for an email address if I already had one... but now I understand.

Some places still send gmail, yahoo, hotmail etc. straight to the spam folder. You may be able to get them to venture into the spam folder for it later. If you pay for internet access chances are you have more than one email account included.

My point was that by making your email address look professional it's one less thing you're going to have to answer for with your attitude and knowledge at the interview... and if you have an unprofessional email address you may not get one at all.

But what *is* unprofessional about gmail? Like I said, not everyone has pay-for-internet. I can't go and ask my landlord for an e-mail account.

"sbcglobal.net" to me seems as good as "gmail.com".

Some of these places where you are filling out a resumé through a service like airlineapps, your e-mail address will be listed, and the e-mail will go to the HR from a catchall, not your address...
 
Because anything else is completely unprofessional and just looks tacky. Back when I was doing hiring, my rule was if the first part of the email was not derived from the name on the resume, it went in the trash. "cmiller@..." was accepted if the person's name was "Chris Miller" or something like that. "pilotman45" or even "pilotchris" not so much.

If the domain on the email was gmail, yahoo, etc, it went in the trash. Take the extra effort to register a more presentable domain. Also, if you're using a university email it was accepted if the first part was your real name, but only if you were actually still at that university. If you listed on your resume that you graduated in 2006 and you were still using your university email, it went in the trash.

My line of thinking is that this is a professional organization that is only interested in hiring professionals, and having a professional email address is part of being professional.

Rubbish. Yahoo or gmail is fine as long as it is professional. I have had firstinitiallastname@yahoo.com for 12 years now and have never found it to be a hinderence. Because it's free means unprofessional? Why would you also not accept someones school email if they graduated a couple years ago? Some may still be taking classes there and the school email is much classier and professional then yahoo or gmail...or so you say.
 
But what *is* unprofessional about gmail? Like I said, not everyone has pay-for-internet. I can't go and ask my landlord for an e-mail account.

"sbcglobal.net" to me seems as good as "gmail.com".

Some of these places where you are filling out a resumé through a service like airlineapps, your e-mail address will be listed, and the e-mail will go to the HR from a catchall, not your address...

Credibility is the problem I have with it, for the reasons I stated in the first paragraph. It's not as much of a problem for me as the pre @ stuff is and who knows, maybe it's become as accepted as Killbilly says. But the point of a resume is to make yourself look as good as possible, so it's a pretty easy tweak, right?
 
Credibility is the problem I have with it, for the reasons I stated in the first paragraph. It's not as much of a problem for me as the pre @ stuff is and who knows, maybe it's become as accepted as Killbilly says. But the point of a resume is to make yourself look as good as possible, so it's a pretty easy tweak, right?

If I am not going to be hired because my email address says @yahoo.com then I really don't think I will enjoy working there.
 
Credibility is the problem I have with it, for the reasons I stated in the first paragraph. It's not as much of a problem for me as the pre @ stuff is and who knows, maybe it's become as accepted as Killbilly says. But the point of a resume is to make yourself look as good as possible, so it's a pretty easy tweak, right?

So, if you were to rent a room in your house out to a young "professional" looking to get on their feet, with this advice in mind, you'd have no problem giving them an e-mail address at your house? You'd have no problem "maintaining" it once they left?

And I challenge anyone here to tell me how they ensure that a "more presentable" e-mail domain is any more verifiable than an @gmail or @yahoo e-mail with a full name on it?

You can spoof ANY e-mail domain.
 
If I am not going to be hired because my email address says @yahoo.com then I really don't think I will enjoy working there.

Agreed. Why would you turn down a potentially outstanding employee because of an e-mail address? Seems to me there are far better ways to judge a candidate. Qualifications, experience, actually talking to them.
 
I agree that love2soar@yahoo isn't the most professional email address, but what's wrong with jbrown2@gmail? When I applied for my last job, I used my gmail account, not the email address from the place I was working with at the time. Nobody seemed to have a problem.

I can imagine how some hiring managers may have looked down on the yahoo accounts when the whole internet/email thing just started; but it's now 2010, and widely accepted that not everybody can afford the earthlink domain name. Hopefully they'll wake up.
 
This delineation is pointless. Arguing about email domains is as important as the brand of pants that the applicant is wearing.
 
thats like saying "whats so unprofessional about t-shirt and jeans?, it's just as good as a pressed suit"

hiring managers disagree

My opinion only, but I suspect those hiring managers who feel that way are artificially narrowing the pool of viable applicants for incredibly subjective criteria.
 
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