ATC AUDIO of me making an emergency landing

jerrywhite7

jerrywhite7

Well-Known Member
I run a thread in the corportate section (Merlin Metro Driver http://forums.jetcareers.com/corporate-fractional-charter-aviation/94772-merlin-metro-driver.html )
But thought that someone can learn from my mistake, so i decided to post this here!

this is a little audio/video clip i put together to show how things can go bad very quickly. This is all real time audio of an event that happen to me in Feb 2010. PLEASE LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES! I am a flight instructor in the Austin area, and although I have ALWAYS check the fuel and oil before every flight (after my students have already completed a pre-flight) I did not do it on this day. Because of that, we ended up making an emergency landing in a field . . .

Let me know what you think. I dont want folks to have to go through what I went through.

[YT]FImvpFjzJlQ[/YT]
 
Feel like it was happening at mach 3?

Nice that you did not bend an airplane. Is the FAA going to bust your chunks about it?

Anyone you walk away from.....:clap:
 
Well done! Question: How has the FAA handled this? Is this a ding on your record?

Again, well done with the situation...especially with your poor daughter being there (hope she is OK!!)
 
jerrywhite7 said:
this is a little audio/video clip i put together to show how things can go bad very quickly. This is all real time audio of an event that happen to me in Feb 2010. PLEASE LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES! I am a flight instructor in the Austin area, and although I have ALWAYS check the fuel and oil before every flight (after my students have already completed a pre-flight) I did not do it on this day. Because of that, we ended up making an emergency landing in a field . . .

Let me know what you think. I dont want folks to have to go through what I went through.
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You asked for brutal honest feedback, here goes.

Unfortunately, running out of fuel is one of those incidents that's inexcusable, save for a few specific extenuating circumstances. But in your case, and as you readily admit, there was absolutely no reason for it. I myself almost ran my A-10 out of gas once, having both main fuel low lights on; however I was stuck in the WX seeking out a tanker one my way back to my field after having responded to a mission on a very low WX night (also written as a story here on JC). So these things can happen due to unplanned and unforseen circumstances. But more often than not, fuel exhaustion is completely preventable.

Beyond the causal factor that put you in the position you found yourself in, you did manage to recover the aircraft undamaged and with no injuries, so good work there.

Live and learn. Thats all you can do. Take your licks for this one (whatever they may be, either personal or from the FAA), put this one in your SA-bag-of-tricks, and press on.

Thats all you can do.
 
MikeD said:
Unfortunately, running out of fuel is one of those incidents that's inexcusable, save for a few specific extenuating circumstances. But in your case, and as you readily admit, there was absolutely no reason for it.
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So true . . . honestly . . . I've always wondered what kinda of MORON would ran an airplane out of fuel .. . I mean, really!!?!??! Youve got to be pretty dumb!! So there I am, going over the airplane with a DBS officer right after we landed, we turn on the batt Master, and sure enough. . there it is, LOW FUEL!! I never even noticed. My heart sank, I was hoping for something, ANYTHING other than that!

I looked over to my student who was standing there, and wanted to PUNCH HIM!!! Dang it!! "DUDE YOU TOLD ME IT WAS GOOD!!"

But at that moment I knew that I was PIC and I knew it was my fault!! I felt like crying. . . I felt so stupid!!! Why did I not check. . I ALWAYS CHECK!!! ALWAYS!! but today, the ONE DAY I did not, Look what happen!

I got complacent!! That is it, nothing else, just figured. . Heck the gusy told me it was good!! He was a rated pilot, has over 100 hours, he should know. . .NOPE!!

The thing is, I still fly with this guy! And I have learned that now, even after this, if I dont go back and actually do a full pre-flight something will be missed. . . Oil level, tiedowns, STILL FUEL!!!
(should I still fly with him, is another debate. .. PLEASE NOT HERE!)

Thank you for the very honest feedback . . . I've got thick skin, and I want this here so that others will learn from me!!!! I've even contacted AOPA to see if they would be intrested so that I could tell my story to them so again this wont happen to anyone else . . .
 
jerrywhite7 said:
So true . . . honestly . . . I've always wondered what kinda of MORON would ran an airplane out of fuel .. . I mean, really!!?!??! Youve got to be pretty dumb!! So there I am, going over the airplane with a DBS officer right after we landed, we turn on the batt Master, and sure enough. . there it is, LOW FUEL!! I never even noticed. My heart sank, I was hoping for something, ANYTHING other than that!
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Do you mean "DPS" officer? And to be honest, depending on where and what altitude the event occurred, how much time you had to crosscheck, and how much time was devoted to having to fly the plane, it's not far-fetched that you wouldn't have noticed the low fuel at that time.

I looked over to my student who was standing there, and wanted to PUNCH HIM!!! Dang it!! "DUDE YOU TOLD ME IT WAS GOOD!!"

But at that moment I knew that I was PIC and I knew it was my fault!! I felt like crying. . . I felt so stupid!!! Why did I not check. . I ALWAYS CHECK!!! ALWAYS!! but today, the ONE DAY I did not, Look what happen!

I got complacent!! That is it, nothing else, just figured. . Heck the gusy told me it was good!! He was a rated pilot, has over 100 hours, he should know. . .NOPE!!

The thing is, I still fly with this guy! And I have learned that now, even after this, if I dont go back and actually do a full pre-flight something will be missed. . . Oil level, tiedowns, STILL FUEL!!!
(should I still fly with him, is another debate. .. PLEASE NOT HERE!)
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We live and learn. Trust but verify, especially when you are the PIC.

Thank you for the very honest feedback . . . I've got thick skin, .
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Thats the whole purpose of a debrief. Not to slam anyone, but to have brutally honest mission dissection go on, identify what was done right as well as wrong, and takeaway learning points.
 
First of all, thanks so much for sharing this with us. I just recently made a very very stupid and costly mistake due to complacency (involved a wing hitting a fence) and I know how much it kills just to think about it, much less talk about it. For you to make this video and post it on here is extremely brave and must have taken some serious pride swallowing.

As a CFI myself this incident really hit home for me. I also make it a habit of "always" checking the fuel and oil after my students pre-flight, but there have been a couple of days where I was running late and I just hopped in the airplane without checking. After reading this I certainly won't skip this check again.

The thing that strikes me the wrong way though is the amount of responsibility you take for this incident. If your student was a brand new student pilot then I would put this all on you but this person had at least a private certificate and 100hrs! I assume that they logged PIC for the flight just as you did. As a CFI it would be nice if you could double check every single piece of planning and preparation that your student does but this is not practical, especially with more advanced and experienced students.

This reminds me of a story I heard of a CFI who got in trouble because he flew into a TFR after his student told him that he got a briefing but in fact did not. Are we as CFIs supposed to get our own serperate briefings and do our own seperate pre-flights to make sure our students, who are fully rated to act as PIC, didn't miss anything? I would say no.
 
To the poster above me - YES. If you are actually the PIC, you have to act like one, no if's, ands or buts.
 
jerrywhite7 said:
So true . . . honestly . . . I've always wondered what kinda of MORON would ran an airplane out of fuel .. . I mean, really!!?!??! Youve got to be pretty dumb!! So there I am, going over the airplane with a DBS officer right after we landed, we turn on the batt Master, and sure enough. . there it is, LOW FUEL!! I never even noticed. My heart sank, I was hoping for something, ANYTHING other than that!

I looked over to my student who was standing there, and wanted to PUNCH HIM!!! Dang it!! "DUDE YOU TOLD ME IT WAS GOOD!!"

But at that moment I knew that I was PIC and I knew it was my fault!! I felt like crying. . . I felt so stupid!!! Why did I not check. . I ALWAYS CHECK!!! ALWAYS!! but today, the ONE DAY I did not, Look what happen!

I got complacent!! That is it, nothing else, just figured. . Heck the gusy told me it was good!! He was a rated pilot, has over 100 hours, he should know. . .NOPE!!

The thing is, I still fly with this guy! And I have learned that now, even after this, if I dont go back and actually do a full pre-flight something will be missed. . . Oil level, tiedowns, STILL FUEL!!!
(should I still fly with him, is another debate. .. PLEASE NOT HERE!)

Thank you for the very honest feedback . . . I've got thick skin, and I want this here so that others will learn from me!!!! I've even contacted AOPA to see if they would be intrested so that I could tell my story to them so again this wont happen to anyone else . . .
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That happened to me too--trusting somebody else on the fuel. Plane back from LAL for a checkoff on a comm, picked me up at BKV and I asked the radio guy's son if they had full fuel when the left LEE. He lied out--not out of malice--but out of stupidity and immaturity--afraid to tell the truth. Flew the plane back to LEE, dropped of the "crew" and flew back to BKV. Decided to do a touch and go for fun and about 50' off the ground the engine started to die. I surprised myself how quickly I reached for the fuel selector and kept the machine running.....

Lesson:

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER take somebody else' word on fuel on board.

Cordially,

b.
 
chuckles1225 said:
As a CFI myself this incident really hit home for me. I also make it a habit of "always" checking the fuel and oil after my students pre-flight, but there have been a couple of days where I was running late and I just hopped in the airplane without checking. After reading this I certainly won't skip this check again.
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Man, thanks. . . yeah this is why I posted this. . .honestly! For CFI's or Capts or FO or anyone . . .

chuckles1225 said:
The thing that strikes me the wrong way though is the amount of responsibility you take for this incident. If your student was a brand new student pilot then I would put this all on you but this person had at least a private certificate and 100hrs! I assume that they logged PIC for the flight just as you did. As a CFI it would be nice if you could double check every single piece of planning and preparation that your student does but this is not practical, especially with more advanced and experienced students.
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Yeah, I did get legal "help" from AOPA and finally the FAA told me, (and the AOPA lawyers told me as well) as a CFI you are responsible for the safety of the flight. Our students expect that we are not only the professionals, but we are going to conduct this lesson in a safe manner and environment.
Honestly, I totaly agree with you, a rated pilot "should" be able (and held responsible" for the preflight! But that is not the case . .. :banghead:

The bad thing is, I still see it EVERYDAY around where I instruct. . . my buddies still take it for granted and dont verify things!

Here is the kicker. . .
I later found out that the student did think that there "might" not be enough fuel in the tanks. So he asked another flight instructor who told him. . "nay, it is good, just make sure you dont switch the tanks as much as you would usually do"

ERRRRRRRRRR!!!! Yeah, I found that out later on as well!!!
 
Thanks for putting that out Jerry, that takes a lot of courage. When I was a low time private pilot, I almost put myself into a very similar situation. I learned a lot from my close call, and was able to apply it to lessons with my students later in my career. Good luck, and let us know how things go with the FAA. I've known people that had FAR worse things happen, and they were able to quickly put it behind them and move on. I don't think you'll have too much trouble.
 
I guarantee if one of my kids are on board I have a higher calling as PARENT to make sure there is enough fuel on board. The hell with the FAA or whoever is PIC!

Fuel level, fuel cap integrity and oil level. These are the "killer items" for a training aircraft as far as I am concerned and they get checked before every flight.
 
Thanks for the post. Glad you were all physically not harmed.

Tough lesson learned, but you are to be commended on safely landing the plane and staying professional and calm.
 
To the OP thanks for sharing, takes some cajones to own up to that, even online.

chuckles1225 said:
This reminds me of a story I heard of a CFI who got in trouble because he flew into a TFR after his student told him that he got a briefing but in fact did not. Are we as CFIs supposed to get our own serperate briefings and do our own seperate pre-flights to make sure our students, who are fully rated to act as PIC, didn't miss anything? I would say no.
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Absolutely you are supposed to. It is YOUR flight. You are acting pic. If ANYTHING goes wrong it is YOUR fault and yours alone.

I have even heard of a situation where a captain had an FO run a simple terminating checklist in the captain's absence. Well the FO ended up missing something which caused the battery to drain overnight. Guess who was called in for retraining? (no this did not involve me)
 
Itchy said:
To the poster above me - YES. If you are actually the PIC, you have to act like one, no if's, ands or buts.
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But if you have ever worked as a CFI, especially at a busy 141 school, you know that there is not always going to be time to verify EVERY single thing that your students should be checking. Part of being PIC is being able to delegate tasks using good CRM such as "you listen to ATIS while I brief the approach." At some point you have to have some faith in other pilots because micromanaging doesn't work very well in this industry.
 
chuckles1225 said:
But if you have ever worked as a CFI, especially at a busy 141 school, you know that there is not always going to be time to verify EVERY single thing that your students should be checking. Part of being PIC is being able to delegate tasks using good CRM such as "you listen to ATIS while I brief the approach." At some point you have to have some faith in other pilots because micromanaging doesn't work very well in this industry.
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Yes I have worked as a CFI and I know where you're coming from. That was my thought process at one time, too. At my company we have 18 minutes to shutdown one airplane, find the new one at a different gate, and go from dead airplane to everything running and full of passengers ready to go. 18 minutes. We don't always make it. The priority is to make sure everything's done right, and if we make the time too that's great.

How long's it really take to glance over a 172? I don't mean checking every screw and bolt, but the killer items like fuel and oil? I'm not trying to call you out rather highlighting what's at stake. I assume if you're a 141 CFI you plan to make this a career.
 
To everybody talking about instructors verifying fuel...why not use the gauges in flight? Fuel checks don't have to be exclusively visual checks.

That's how I do it. One of the first checks I do after engine start is a look at the fuel quantity gauges. If they both read full, I don't worry about it. If less than full, I ask the pilot how many gallons of fuel we have. Notice I say "gallons" rather than if we simply have "enough."

I've never had a problem with this method. I can't visually double-check everything and I'm not going to try.
 
E_Dawg said:
Yes I have worked as a CFI and I know where you're coming from. That was my thought process at one time, too. At my company we have 18 minutes to shutdown one airplane, find the new one at a different gate, and go from dead airplane to everything running and full of passengers ready to go. 18 minutes. We don't always make it. The priority is to make sure everything's done right, and if we make the time too that's great.

How long's it really take to glance over a 172? I don't mean checking every screw and bolt, but the killer items like fuel and oil? I'm not trying to call you out rather highlighting what's at stake. I assume if you're a 141 CFI you plan to make this a career.
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True, you should never sacrifice safety for efficiency, or anything else for that matter. I guess I was half playing devil's advocate/venting my CFI frustration before. I appreciate the responsibility of the PIC as much as anybody and there are no excuses for not ensuring that EVERY aspect of the flight has been covered, especially fuel planning.
 
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