Thank goodness Bye, Bye UND soon enough!

[BIGRIG]

There is such a thing as not being challenged by your teachers to the point where you do not learn. When the entire grade of a class is based off of tests then all you are doing is teaching people how to retain information to do well on a test, then a week later it is all gone.

It is very hard for people that have the standard listen to lecture learning style to understand what I am talking about, but the teacher needs to make an effort to make people think about the topics. Simply put, don't tell me, show me!

Yes, I need to learn better study skills, but I am honestly and truly telling you my teachers at UND have NOT challenged me intellectually. Being able to pass a test just means you are good at passing tests, it has nothing to do with intellect.

Some say that is how college is, well I guess I might as well either get a degree for cheaper or just be a English major because I get A's in English. Either way UND is out.



I had to work 30 hours a week last semester to keep up with my expenses, so it was not GPA that caused me to choose to leave, I just could not juggle the 3 things. So I would think it will not be to big of an issue getting back in. I just would prefer to have above a 3.0 so I am more competitive for a pilot slot.

This is all tragic stuff. Your telling me that you couldn't get above a 3.0 at UND, then you try and pass off some garbage that you weren't being challenged enough. HAHAHAHAHA. You just made my day.

Tell me professor-feel-good, if they can't base your grade on a test, what should they base your grade on? Perhaps they should ask you what YOU think your grade should be. If you get your beloved flight slot in the airforce, how do you think your grades are going to be based. They are not going to give a rip if you are challenged or not. If you dont pass the tests, you wont be moving forward.

Good luck going to any other college out there. I am sure that non of them treat their students like UND does.

 

[adk]

If you like boring drab teachers that do not seek to inspire, good for you. I will not put up with them when money is coming out of my pocket however.

News flash - almost every course at every university is boring. If you think class is supposed to be awe-inspiring you've been watching too much Dead Poets Society. If you can find a teacher who makes English 101 or introductory calculus a life changing event, more power to you.

 

[PGT]

Take a trip to Grand Marais, or International Falls for free Canadian jam, hell even Hibbing is awesome, there's always Madeline Island too... Part 61 flying in MN is awesome and you will have a TON of fun building hours for your commercial.

This is all tragic stuff. Your telling me that you couldn't get above a 3.0 at UND, then you try and pass off some garbage that you weren't being challenged enough. HAHAHAHAHA. You just made my day.

Not being challenged enough can lead to a low class grade, trust me. I've had super easy classes where I was bored out of my mind and managed to get a lower grade than usual.

 

[mwflyer]

You dont like cold weather, but you are going to Duluth???

 

[challenger]

This is all tragic stuff. Your telling me that you couldn't get above a 3.0 at UND, then you try and pass off some garbage that you weren't being challenged enough. HAHAHAHAHA. You just made my day.

Tell me professor-feel-good, if they can't base your grade on a test, what should they base your grade on? Perhaps they should ask you what YOU think your grade should be. If you get your beloved flight slot in the airforce, how do you think your grades are going to be based. They are not going to give a rip if you are challenged or not. If you dont pass the tests, you wont be moving forward.

Good luck going to any other college out there. I am sure that non of them treat their students like UND does.

BTW, I am not much below a 3.0.

You are totally missing my point; it is that if I am paying for college tuition (Which I might not have to at a U of M system school) and not recieving a quality product, I would rather not be in a .... like North Dakota.

I will say it once again, tests do not provide real learning, the average person usually studies for a test temporarily absorbs the information and and forgets 75% of it after a week. That is why tests are not the best way to provide grades. They do not promote lifelong learning, and basing an entire grade off of tests is only testing a persons short term memory abilities.

And as far as the Air Force goes, I will not have a problem with it because I highly doubt they have incompetent instructors teaching the next generation of Air Force pilots. Learning in the military is totally different then college IMHO. They can do things how they want however, they are the Air Force. I will adapt for that. On the other hand, I do not feel the need to stay here and adapt, even if it is like UND at other schools. U of M system schools are definitely held to a higher standard then North Dakota though.

And I continue, I HAVE NOT ING BEEN CHALLENGED HERE

News flash - almost every course at every university is boring. If you think class is supposed to be awe-inspiring you've been watching too much Dead Poets Society. If you can find a teacher who makes English 101 or introductory calculus a life changing event, more power to you.

I actually had an amazing English teacher, and not at UND

Take a trip to Grand Marais, or International Falls for free Canadian jam, hell even Hibbing is awesome, there's always Madeline Island too... Part 61 flying in MN is awesome and you will have a TON of fun building hours for your commercial.

Yeah that would be really fun, I would like to get my float plane certification sometime and go to my cabin, which is like 50 miles from Grand Marais.

 

[challenger]

You dont like cold weather, but you are going to Duluth???

Duluth is a Different kind of cold. I am from there, BTW. There is less of an issue with windchill there. Less flat, pine trees, I can deal.

And you can go to airports UND wouldnt let you go to, just think of the possiblities. I'm sure the FBO though will have a list of a few airports that are off limits to anyone, thats actually fairly common at most flight schools for insurance purposes. But they don't care if an airport has maintainence, or is unattended. They won't care if you brought your furry coat or thick boots... when its just 30 deg outside when a sweater would be adequate. They wont care if a thunderstrom is 20 miles out and your going off on a XC away from the storm only to dissipate by the time you return, ha! As long as you bring the plane back in the same conditinon as you left with it, your gold

Ahh. . . The freedom! :drool: Your getting me exited to start flying there now! haha

 

[ml_wd]

BTW, I am not much below a 3.0.

I will adapt for that.

You better plan on pulling your GPA up if you want to be competitive because your not really showing you can "adapt" by getting C's in a couple 100 level courses.

 

[juxtapilot]

BTW, I am not much below a 3.0.

You are totally missing my point; it is that if I am paying for college tuition (Which I might not have to at a U of M system school) and not recieving a quality product, I would rather not be in a .... like North Dakota.

I will say it once again, tests do not provide real learning, the average person usually studies for a test temporarily absorbs the information and and forgets 75% of it after a week. That is why tests are not the best way to provide grades. They do not promote lifelong learning, and basing an entire grade off of tests is only testing a persons short term memory abilities.

And as far as the Air Force goes, I will not have a problem with it because I highly doubt they have incompetent instructors teaching the next generation of Air Force pilots. Learning in the military is totally different then college IMHO. They can do things how they want however, they are the Air Force. I will adapt for that. On the other hand, I do not feel the need to stay here and adapt, even if it is like UND at other schools. U of M system schools are definitely held to a higher standard then North Dakota though.

And I continue, I HAVE NOT ING BEEN CHALLENGED HERE

I actually had an amazing English teacher, and not at UND

Yeah that would be really fun, I would like to get my float plane certification sometime and go to my cabin, which is like 50 miles from Grand Marais.

I know how you feel. As someone who had a high GPA at UND, and went to a challenging high school, I can say that UND did not challenge me either. It was like being placed into middle school. Pathetic.

Glad you decided to leave before you had too much invested there.

Edit: Human Factors was a good class though...

 

[challenger]

I know how you feel. As someone who had a high GPA at UND, and went to a challenging high school, I can say that UND did not challenge me either. It was like being placed into middle school. Pathetic.

Glad you decided to leave before you had too much invested there.

Edit: Human Factors was a good class though...

Too bad I can't take that class before I leave this place

Oh well, I like airplanes and am a natural pilot and I am leaving! :beer:

(not to sound cocky or anything) :rotfl:

 

[jfuchtm]

Not calling you out here, but I am calling BS on some of your issues.

FYI, I am not attending UND nor will I be but my son will be. We have looked at many schools (from south to north) and he has selected UND.

Keep in mind, this is coming from someone old enough to be your father. I have put one through college and will be starting the second. Take it for what its worth, your mileage may vary.

1. Are you ready to have to deal with administrators messing up your financial aid or whatever else they can possibly screw up. (trust me they will find a way and you will have to go to 5 different offices to figure out what they messed up and how to fix it)

If your paying for it and not happy about how something is being handled, do something about it, don't bitch on a forum about it. It will get you nowhere.

2. Are you ready to pay for required classes that do not challenge you intellectually (mostly on the general education side)

It appears your a Freshman, that will change as you proceed.

3. To live in a ugly area of the country that should no be inhabited.

It's not Club Med, was never advertised that way.

4. To pay top dollar for not only a worthless degree

No college degree is worthless, not even a GED or AAS.

5. To be a human Popsicle for 4 months of the year. (This is coming from a person from Minnesota, this is the first time in my life I have been too cold)

Again, not advertised as Club Med.

6. To be charged for worthless things such as the Aviation Laptop and have aerospace administrators be totally inflexible to working out a different solution. (I am sure they will find another way to charge people for something they do not need)

That programs appears to be over (thankfully).

7. To deal with bad weather and UND making the decision if you can fly or not. I.E not getting real world experience that may one day save your life. (of course there are certain times when you should be weathered, I have however seen some questionable calls for no fly)

Sometimes decisions have to be made, I would rather you be safe than sorry. Again, as you get more hours (it appears you have less than 10) you will fly in other conditions.

8. If you are looking for a hands on program this is not it.

Freshman, Avit 102? Your learning. walk before you run (or fly).

9. To learn to fly like a robot by using ridiculous checklists on a flippin' Piper Warrior

That is what LEARNING is all about.

10. To be surrounded by guys and only guys in your classes.

Once again, it's not advertised as Club Med. Maybe you should consider your major if you want more ladies around.

So to anyone considering attending UND, please listen to me and do not it is not worth it. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A AVIATION DEGREE TO FLY AS A PROFESSION!

You are correct, you don't have to have a degree to do almost anything, but is this new world order we live it, it sure as hell will help.

I do wish you luck in your path what ever it may be. I hope you have the ability to look back on this and says it was the best move you ever made. I will tell you, I have been out of college for some time and attending the school of hard knocks even longer. It's not easy out here. No one ever promised it would be. Do the best you can, be the best you can be.

Good Luck!

 

[av8or91]

Not calling you out here, but I am calling BS on some of your issues.

FYI, I am not attending UND nor will I be but my son will be. We have looked at many schools (from south to north) and he has selected UND.

Keep in mind, this is coming from someone old enough to be your father. I have put one through college and will be starting the second. Take it for what its worth, your mileage may vary.



If your paying for it and not happy about how something is being handled, do something about it, don't bitch on a forum about it. It will get you nowhere.



It appears your a Freshman, that will change as you proceed.



It's not Club Med, was never advertised that way.



No college degree is worthless, not even a GED or AAS.



Again, not advertised as Club Med.



That programs appears to be over (thankfully).



Sometimes decisions have to be made, I would rather you be safe than sorry. Again, as you get more hours (it appears you have less than 10) you will fly in other conditions.



Freshman, Avit 102? Your learning. walk before you run (or fly).



That is what LEARNING is all about.



Once again, it's not advertised as Club Med. Maybe you should consider your major if you want more ladies around.



You are correct, you don't have to have a degree to do almost anything, but is this new world order we live it, it sure as hell will help.

I do wish you luck in your path what ever it may be. I hope you have the ability to look back on this and says it was the best move you ever made. I will tell you, I have been out of college for some time and attending the school of hard knocks even longer. It's not easy out here. No one ever promised it would be. Do the best you can, be the best you can be.

Good Luck!

Well put dad. I don't mean that in a condescending way.

I think UND is what you make of it. I just came here wanting to learn to fly and did not read any forums neither did I have a pre conceived notions of what UND was all about. I just did what I was told and and went through the whole course with no problems. If you read these forums about UND you will might expect something different as a lot people here are disgruntled that UND is not the way the rest of the flying world is in some respects. Some things are ridiculous and some are not but you deal with it and move on.

 

[challenger]

Not calling you out here, but I am calling BS on some of your issues.

FYI, I am not attending UND nor will I be but my son will be. We have looked at many schools (from south to north) and he has selected UND.

Keep in mind, this is coming from someone old enough to be your father. I have put one through college and will be starting the second. Take it for what its worth, your mileage may vary.



If your paying for it and not happy about how something is being handled, do something about it, don't bitch on a forum about it. It will get you nowhere.



It appears your a Freshman, that will change as you proceed.



It's not Club Med, was never advertised that way.



No college degree is worthless, not even a GED or AAS.



Again, not advertised as Club Med.



That programs appears to be over (thankfully).



Sometimes decisions have to be made, I would rather you be safe than sorry. Again, as you get more hours (it appears you have less than 10) you will fly in other conditions.



Freshman, Avit 102? Your learning. walk before you run (or fly).



That is what LEARNING is all about.



Once again, it's not advertised as Club Med. Maybe you should consider your major if you want more ladies around.



You are correct, you don't have to have a degree to do almost anything, but is this new world order we live it, it sure as hell will help.

I do wish you luck in your path what ever it may be. I hope you have the ability to look back on this and says it was the best move you ever made. I will tell you, I have been out of college for some time and attending the school of hard knocks even longer. It's not easy out here. No one ever promised it would be. Do the best you can, be the best you can be.

Good Luck!

Well I am not happy about it so I am leaving, that is the point of the thread. I have it up here so prospective students can find it and maybe think twice about going here. I am actually a Sophomore right now.

As far as my issue with their checklists, I feel that some of it is unnecessary on such a small aircraft and that it deters from learning needed flying skills. As a person gets the flow down, I am sure it will help speed it up, but it really makes me nervous when I am close to being in the trafic pattern and I have my instructor having me do large unnecessary checklists when I should really be focused outside of the plane. (it might just be me on that one, who knows)

Getting a aviation degree at UND might help a person trying to get into the airlines because it is a program designed for airline pilot. This is a big maybe, in my case wanting to be in Military aviation UND is only going to hurt my chances because I can get better grades in a different subject matter.

I tried to make the best of UND, but being halfway through 102 this semester and not making adequate progress towards my goals has caused me to pull the plug. I am sure it works fine for some people, I however have no ability to get the student loans for anything other then my tuition. Possibly that is for the best as I will only be about 30,000 in debt when it is all said and done rather then 100,000. Alas, it will be nice to be actually cool to people for flying at a college that does not have 1000 pilots! :laff:

Good luck to your son and thanks for the wishes for good luck to me as well. I can only take it as it comes, and move forward from there. I am certain this is the best thing for me to do.

 

[JOEFRIDAY2]

I'm gonna chime in here for a bit.


You can learn the ground school stuff by yourself. If you put an honest effort into it then you will learn more in a self study ground school program than in an academy program.

Lots of folks get excited by the academy programs. In my experience they are nothing to get excited about.

I do disagree with you on the checklists.

You should always use a checklist. I know it seems like it's just the same thing over and over, but if you don't use a checklist then you might leave something important out that could kill you and your passengers. Be safe and always use the checklist. Professional pilots always use a checklist.

Joe

 

[BIGRIG]

As far as my issue with their checklists, I feel that some of it is unnecessary on such a small aircraft and that it deters from learning needed flying skills. As a person gets the flow down, I am sure it will help speed it up, but it really makes me nervous when I am close to being in the trafic pattern and I have my instructor having me do large unnecessary checklists when I should really be focused outside of the plane. (it might just be me on that one, who knows)

............ Alas, it will be nice to be actually cool to people for flying at a college that does not have 1000 pilots! :laff:

Good luck with the military. I am sure you can explain it to your IFS instructor that you dont need to use checklists in a small C-172. He will understand.

And the second part, you are totally gonna get laid by a different chick every night.:rotfl: Make sure you get some sweet aviator sunglasses just like all the "cool" pilots and wear them around campus, even if its dark outside.

 

[challenger]

Good luck with the military. I am sure you can explain it to your IFS instructor that you dont need to use checklists in a small C-172. He will understand.

And the second part, you are totally gonna get laid by a different chick every night.:rotfl: Make sure you get some sweet aviator sunglasses just like all the "cool" pilots and wear them around campus, even if its dark outside.

Already do that chief. Not really but close enough. Got a problem with Aviators?



Checklists are important, just not to the extent that UND uses them. We are not flying a complex aircraft, in the warrior.

 

[greaper007]

Already do that chief. Not really but close enough. Got a problem with Aviators?

Checklists are important, just not to the extent that UND uses them. We are not flying a complex aircraft, in the warrior.

Aviators aren't the problem, it's everything else that they're attached to. Large watches; bad haircuts; and enormous untested, unwarranted egos.

As you train, so shall you fight... If you want to fly in the military or the airlines get used to checklists. I'm not completely familiar with UND's program, however, if they're having you guys do standardized checklists out loud I applaud them. It's one other thing you won't have to remember to do when you're trying to fly your first large aircraft from the cargo compartment on the first few sim rides you do (just maybe that will be enough to keep you from washing out.)

Dude, I believe that UND isn't everything it's cracked up to be, you don't have to sell me on that. Everything else you're posting here is following the same path of angry rhetoric you use for political and other posts on this site. I think analyzing your attitude and thought process will serve you much better in life than any college transfer.

 

[challenger]

Aviators aren't the problem, it's everything else that they're attached to. Large watches; bad haircuts; and enormous untested, unwarranted egos.

As you train, so shall you fight... If you want to fly in the military or the airlines get used to checklists. I'm not completely familiar with UND's program, however, if they're having you guys do standardized checklists out loud I applaud them. It's one other thing you won't have to remember to do when you're trying to fly your first large aircraft from the cargo compartment on the first few sim rides you do (just maybe that will be enough to keep you from washing out.)

Dude, I believe that UND isn't everything it's cracked up to be, you don't have to sell me on that. Everything else you're posting here is following the same path of angry rhetoric you use for political and other posts on this site. I think analyzing your attitude and thought process will serve you much better in life than any college transfer.

Really, all it boils down to is cost and how much I do not like living in North Dakota. When I cannot get the financial aid to fly and it is coming out of my pocket to do so it makes more sense to not pay so much.

Checklists are not the reason I am leaving UND, so I should not have even brought it up.

I do however not think that the teaching is acceptable at UND still. People can keep on flaming but that is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

That is all.

 

[PGT]

Why do some people get all sensitive when you talk about UND?

 

[challenger]

Why do some people get all sensitive when you talk about UND?

I don't get it. Also, the fact that some of the people who are defending it and haven't experienced it at all yet is mind boggling.

All I can say to people is have fun at your pilot mill. You WILL just be a number at UND.

 

[av8or91]

Why do some people get all sensitive when you talk about UND?

When someone goes to a 2 hour movie but only watches the first 10 minutes and then writes an analysis on the whole thing, you'd be a little sensitive to the fact that you have seen the whole thing and you have your opinions on it that were not formed by an internet forum. UND is what make of it, some like it, some hate it, some deal with it.