Enlightening Video

Micaoct

Micaoct

Well-Known Member
Hello all, I haven't been on here in a while but a friend of mine recently linked me to an interesting video that anyone who is considering taking a big loan to come train at UND should see.

http://www.wimp.com/pilotsstamps/

That is on top of everything else that goes on at UND...
Don't do it, go to a state school and work on ratings part time at a local airport when you get the money, that is all.
 
What does this video have to do with coming to UND vs. Going to an FBO??? You would still be making the same crappy pay.

You would have an argument maybe if you said don't pick flying as a career and do something else.

Oh, and for some of us coming to UND is actually cheaper than going to a state college and going to an FBO on the side. There are scholarships out there. Plus, it is super easy to get in-state tuition at UND if you can sacrifice one summer here and with that the final costs is really not that much more going to a state college + FBO training all the way up through CFII.
 
In the end it would cost about the same, yes. However, at a FBO you pay as you go, and you can complete training as you accumulate enough disposable income to fund it. UND, and other similar training environments require you to have the money already. Once you start you need to keep moving quickly through the courses to be successful, it is just the nature of the program. If you don't have the money in cash upfront, you are going to have to take a loan.

You point out scholarships, and that is a valid point; however a lot people do come without scholarships and fund it purely on loans. I am not trying to deter anyone from this path, I think it is very beneficial and you learn many things about yourself and your abilities through the journey; however it is important to consider all the factors. While this career path might not be for everyone, I highly approve of at least getting a private and a instrument. It is a skill that will stay with you forever and you really do grow as a result.

The only thing I am trying to reiterate is that prospective students should consider all the factors, and based on pay and future opportunities right after graduation, taking a big loan to pay for a aviation degree should not even be an option. Get a degree, locally (at a state) school and get your ratings as you can, it will help you decide if this is the career for you as well as it will be more beneficial for the future.

Just my .02 from prior (limited) experience.

Edit: UND Aerospace has changed as well, it was different even just a few years ago. However, overall, if you want to go to an airline and are 100% sure, UND IS in fact the place. Unfortunately if you have different career aspirations...UND just does not give you enough tools to be successful unless you go out on your own to learn/do internships, etc.
 
Micaoct said:
Edit: UND Aerospace has changed as well, it was different even just a few years ago. However, overall, if you want to go to an airline and are 100% sure, UND IS in fact the place. Unfortunately if you have different career aspirations...UND just does not give you enough tools to be successful unless you go out on your own to learn/do internships, etc.
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and who's fault is that? the overall content of the program is the same as it was 7yrs ago, lesson numbers have changed, some lessons have been removed, but the content is the same. same areas that were weak 7yrs ago are week now too, some are worse, some are better.
 
Blip16 said:
and who's fault is that? the overall content of the program is the same as it was 7yrs ago, lesson numbers have changed, some lessons have been removed, but the content is the same. same areas that were weak 7yrs ago are week now too, some are worse, some are better.
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Ahhh, UND's for not making a well rounded curriculum? :chair:
 
challenger said:
Ahhh, UND's for not making a well rounded curriculum? :chair:
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pretty sure he said UND does not provide the tools. I understand the student is the customer, but if you want to be a pilot you need to have motivation to go out and find some information yourself.

in the part 61 world of training, the only things you can get that you don't get a UND is basic aircraft ownership (which isn't a bad thing) but at the end of the day shooting an ILS is the same.

the program is what you want to make of it, yes it is tailored towards airlines but it is no different than a highly structured flight department.
 
Blip16 said:
pretty sure he said UND does not provide the tools. I understand the student is the customer, but if you want to be a pilot you need to have motivation to go out and find some information yourself.

in the part 61 world of training, the only things you can get that you don't get a UND is basic aircraft ownership (which isn't a bad thing) but at the end of the day shooting an ILS is the same.

the program is what you want to make of it, yes it is tailored towards airlines but it is no different than a highly structured flight department.
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In part 61, I can shop for a flight Instructor that has thousands of hours. I would consider that different. It would also automatically be more creative then UND's current flight policy. There is a reason why people get burned out by the time they get into higher up classes and even, "lose the fun factor of flying" at UND.

Now this issue is probably just what it is like to fly at a 141 university.

But, one other thing I do not understand about UND is why we have to fly 172's and Warrior's, Wouldn't it keep cost down to get DA-20's or something like that for the primary trainer? In this day and age (probably luckily in my case) most people cannot get the private loans required to pay for flight costs.

Roger said:
Really? I always thought UND had plenty of tools.
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As for this, do any of you alumni guys think that when people say UND is changing for the worse that it is still the same as it was when you went here? Just something to think about. I mean maybe there is a reason for all of this bickering.

Rablle, Rabble, Rablle
 
challenger said:
In part 61, I can shop for a flight Instructor that has thousands of hours. I would consider that different. It would also automatically be more creative then UND's current flight policy. There is a reason why people get burned out by the time they get into higher up classes and even, "lose the fun factor of flying" at UND.

Now this issue is probably just what it is like to fly at a 141 university.

But, one other thing I do not understand about UND is why we have to fly 172's and Warrior's, Wouldn't it keep cost down to get DA-20's or something like that for the primary trainer? In this day and age (probably luckily in my case) most people cannot get the private loans required to pay for flight costs.



As for this, do any of you alumni guys think that when people say UND is changing for the worse that it is still the same as it was when you went here? Just something to think about. I mean maybe there is a reason for all of this bickering.

Rablle, Rabble, Rablle
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as someone who has done both, i won't argue with you.

the price of UND's a/c is cheaper than most other rentals out there unless you are talking about renting a 30yr old a/c (not that is that is a bad thing) but for a brand new airplane, you won't find much cheaper.
 
Roger said:
Really? I always thought UND had plenty of tools.
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Especially the flight team (there are good ones on there though).

Part 61 you don't get a huge moving map to do everything for you, you don't get other people making decisions on go/no go and diversions, and you CAN fly wherever you want.
 
PGT said:
Especially the flight team (there are good ones on there though).

Part 61 you don't get a huge moving map to do everything for you, you don't get other people making decisions on go/no go and diversions, and you CAN fly wherever you want.
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i have rented a/c from places that don't let you fly where ever you want. and if you do you accept full financial responsiblity if something were to happen. UND's policies prevent that.
 
By UND not providing the tools, I do not mean literal, in terms of equipment. It is deeper than that, a lot of poor instructors teach at UND, seems as the quality goes down as the years go on. (No offense to the awesome instructors that are at UND and work hard every day and go out of their way for their students) Some are amazing but there is an increasing number that are macho, don't care about their students at all, etcetera.

I hear "do this for the stage, this is what you need to pass the stage, make sure you do this at this point to pass the stage, and so forth; I don't care about the stage, sure it is important to pass; but give me the tools and knowledge to understand why I should do this and why it is relevant. As an instructor you should pass on YOUR experience to the student and make them able to make decisions and function on their own. I want to pass the stages sure, but I think it is much more important that the instructor provides the tools to the student so they can make decisions, understand why things happen rather then just rote procedural memorization; passing the stage will come after that.

At lot of stage pilots have a way of thinking that it's either UND's way or the highway, not really their fault per say, it is just UND's rules. But somethings can be done in many ways (safe ways) and students aren't provided that opportunity, and it really doesn't give you any flexibly to make your own decisions. I guess that comes as a byproduct of having such a narrow focused training environment.

I'm surprised UND doesn't start putting push back tugs and marshalers for the ramp, "to simulate an airline environment." I guess it's the next step?
 
By UND not providing the tools, I do not mean literal, in terms of equipment. It is deeper than that, a lot of poor instructors teach at UND, seems as the quality goes down as the years go on. (No offense to the awesome instructors that are at UND and work hard every day and go out of their way for their students) Some are amazing but there is an increasing number that are macho, don't care about their students at all, etcetera.

I hear "do this for the stage, this is what you need to pass the stage, make sure you do this at this point to pass the stage, and so forth; I don't care about the stage, sure it is important to pass; but give me the tools and knowledge to understand why I should do this and why it is relevant. As an instructor you should pass on YOUR experience to the student and make them able to make decisions and function on their own. I want to pass the stages sure, but I think it is much more important that the instructor provides the tools to the student so they can make decisions, understand why things happen rather then just rote procedural memorization; passing the stage will come after that.
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correct

But somethings can be done in many ways (safe ways) and students aren't provided that opportunity, and it really doesn't give you any flexibly to make your own decisions.
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such as?
 
challenger said:
As for this, do any of you alumni guys think that when people say UND is changing for the worse that it is still the same as it was when you went here? Just something to think about. I mean maybe there is a reason for all of this bickering.

Rablle, Rabble, Rablle
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I didn't go to UND, the only experience I have with them are tools I was in CAP with who went there, and their snooty flight team at NIFA national competitions.
 
HAHAHAHAH flying team, aren't they a bunch of ........ :rotfl:
I can see it now, flying team members breaking out a sweat to solve what exactly? E6B problems, figuring out which airplane is shown in a picture, landing in the right spot....that’s some pretty hardcore poop

Hate to break it to them but what exactly will that do for them? Oh yeah it's something to put on a resume to gain that flying job which will proudly pay them less than 40,000 a year.

So who are the real competitors? Any major sporting league that pays them millions:rawk:
 
nutz4life said:
HAHAHAHAH flying team, aren't they a bunch of ........ :rotfl:

Good evenin' to ya sir. I guess you just never know who you'll find hanging around here. I'm glad you find some excitement in knocking on what my friends and I chose to do in our free time on an anonymous internet forum. That'll probably have about the same effectiveness at getting you a job as what we do.:confused:
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ScoutFlyer said:
nutz4life said:
HAHAHAHAH flying team, aren't they a bunch of ........ :rotfl:

Good evenin' to ya sir. I guess you just never know who you'll find hanging around here. I'm glad you find some excitement in knocking on what my friends and I chose to do in our free time on an anonymous internet forum. That'll probably have about the same effectiveness at getting you a job as what we do.:confused:
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I know what you mean. I'm a proud NIFA Flight Team alum (not from UND), and being involved with NIFA helped make me a better, more responsible person, as well as a better pilot. I'm not even doing aviation as a career, and I still wouldn't change the four years I spent competing.

I don't go ripping on people for playing World of Warcraft all day (which is far more useless than NIFA), so why rip on what we do?
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nutz4life said:
HAHAHAHAH flying team, aren't they a bunch of ........ :rotfl:
I can see it now, flying team members breaking out a sweat to solve what exactly? E6B problems, figuring out which airplane is shown in a picture, landing in the right spot....that’s some pretty hardcore poop

Hate to break it to them but what exactly will that do for them? Oh yeah it's something to put on a resume to gain that flying job which will proudly pay them less than 40,000 a year.

So who are the real competitors? Any major sporting league that pays them millions:rawk:
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Wherever I want to go next in aviation, chances are I've got a flight team teammate who can walk in a resume and help me get there. Not to mention that studying SCAN made studying for my CFI initial oral a non-event. Or that the E6B test improved my mental math 110% (tell me THAT doesn't come in useful when flying). Oh yeah, it was also a great time!
 
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