IFR fuel reserves
- Thread starter ASpilot2be
- Start date
Matt13C
Well-Known Member
If you use the definitions of the phrases used in the FAR's, it would appear that as long as the flight is going to be conducted in VFR CONDITIONS, 30 mins of fuel is required, regardless of if you are on an IFR plan or not.
If there is an FAA interpretation of this stating otherwise please post it. But the FAA is very deliberate in the words and phrases they use when writing a FAR. By using the word "conditions", they mean just that, the conditions, not rules, the flight will be conducted in. Even using the word in, instead of under, as in rules the flight is conducted under, seems to me, to say they are talking about actual weather conditions and not flight rules.
That is my take which is worth absolutely nothing.
All taken from the current FAR's
IFR conditions means weather conditions below the minimum for flight under visual flight rules.
§ 91.151 Fuel requirements for flight in VFR conditions.
(a) No person may begin a flight in an airplane under VFR conditions unless (considering wind and forecast weather conditions) there is enough fuel to fly to the first point of intended landing and, assuming normal cruising speed—
(1) During the day, to fly after that for at least 30 minutes; or
(2) At night, to fly after that for at least 45 minutes.
(b) No person may begin a flight in a rotorcraft under VFR conditions unless (considering wind and forecast weather conditions) there is enough fuel to fly to the first point of intended landing and, assuming normal cruising speed, to fly after that for at least 20 minutes.
§ 91.167 Fuel requirements for flight in IFR conditions.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft in IFR conditions unless it carries enough fuel (considering weather reports and forecasts and weather conditions) to—
(1) Complete the flight to the first airport of intended landing;
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, fly from that airport to the alternate airport; and
(3) Fly after that for 45 minutes at normal cruising speed or, for helicopters, fly after that for 30 minutes at normal cruising speed.
(b) Paragraph (a)(2) of this section does not apply if:
(1) Part 97 of this chapter prescribes a standard instrument approach procedure to, or a special instrument approach procedure has been issued by the Administrator to the operator for, the first airport of intended landing; and
(2) Appropriate weather reports or weather forecasts, or a combination of them, indicate the following:
(i) For aircraft other than helicopters. For at least 1 hour before and for 1 hour after the estimated time of arrival, the ceiling will be at least 2,000 feet above the airport elevation and the visibility will be at least 3 statute miles.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Well, that seems pretty clear then. You are right.
Maybe it's different on the left coast, but every time I get a TEC route it's because I filed an IFR flight plan.
Even if you're VFR? Never flown out there, so I'm clueless as to the SOP.
Aside from being "Cleared into the class bravo" I can't think of any other time I've heard that I was "cleared" anywhere under VFR.
-mini
I guess that's what I am confused about. He said he got a TEC route on a "non-IFR" flight plan.
Flying a route and getting a clearance to fly a route can be two different things.
I can fly KABC ABC V101 DEF V202 GHI V303 KXYZ all I want at an appropriate VFR altitude, maintaining VFR cloud clearances and talking to the appropriate people at the appropriate times. That doesn't mean I was given a clearance to fly that route.
It may not be smart, but it's definitely possible.
-mini
No, but I think we're still looking for a legal counsel opinion confirming this one way or another.Are we ignoring the original topic now?
-mini
I just assumed that no sane human being would fly a TEC route if they were not assigned that route on an IFR flight plan.
bLizZuE
Calling for engine starts en français
I'm curious how you can misinterpret the definition provided by 1.1?
I've done dumber stuff.:beer:
-mini
Me too, man. :beer:
I think mini may have been sarcastic.
I don't have the authority to interpret anything and neither do you. So, until I read something from someone that does have that authority, I'll protect my certificates by putting the extra 15 minutes of gas in the tanks...even in beautiful day weather.
You can operate your aircraft however you choose. Just don't cry the blues if your interpretation isn't consistent with someone's that matters. I do hope that you're right, but until I see something from an official source, I'm not willing to put my tickets on the line over 15 minutes of gas. Sorry if that inconveniences you.
The problem I have is the wording in this interpretation. http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...nterpretations/data/interps/2009/Negron-2.pdf
"The FAA requires that, for IFR operations, aircraft carry enough fuel to fly for an additional 45 minutes from an alternate airport "at normal cruising speed." § 91. I67(a)(3)."
The word "conditions" is not there (in that sentence...just IFR operations) either purely accidentally or because that's how the legal counsel interprets the regulation. (Bottom of page 1 into page 2). So, I need to know which it is. No offense, but your opinion on the matter won't keep me (or my students) from having to do a carpet dance.
-mini
bLizZuE
Calling for engine starts en français
Ok Cheech, lets play 'step back and breathe.'
I'm not suggesting you go out and 'put your tickets on the line' as you implied. When it boils down, we're just talking semantics. Will I defuel my aircraft to 30 minutes of reserve just because I can? No.
I could, if I wanted to.
Next, you're saying that I'm not qualified to 'interpret anything', however I disagree. My response to this is twofold. First; what are we interpreting? To me it isn't a gray area, or something that is in clouded text. It is very plainly written and defined. Second; If I do make an interpretation, I am just as you said able to 'operate your aircraft however you choose.' I thank you for the permission
I didn't come into this thread to plant a flag and declare dominance. I just offered what tidbit of knowledge I had to shed light on the original question. In no way shape or form am I suggesting we should all just 30 minutes of fuel reserves in VFR/VMC conditions. I'm merely pointing out what the FARs very plainly and clearly state.
I'm not suggesting you go out and 'put your tickets on the line' as you implied. When it boils down, we're just talking semantics. Will I defuel my aircraft to 30 minutes of reserve just because I can? No.
I could, if I wanted to.
Next, you're saying that I'm not qualified to 'interpret anything', however I disagree. My response to this is twofold. First; what are we interpreting? To me it isn't a gray area, or something that is in clouded text. It is very plainly written and defined. Second; If I do make an interpretation, I am just as you said able to 'operate your aircraft however you choose.' I thank you for the permission
I didn't come into this thread to plant a flag and declare dominance. I just offered what tidbit of knowledge I had to shed light on the original question. In no way shape or form am I suggesting we should all just 30 minutes of fuel reserves in VFR/VMC conditions. I'm merely pointing out what the FARs very plainly and clearly state.
Regarding regulations, you can disagree all you want...but you still don't have the authority to interpret anything.
Authority, not "qualified".
Big difference.
-mini