How can someone suck this bad at flying?

Kestrel452 said:
You can see the guy force the elevator down every time he bounces back up. Even as a student pilot, it's obvious to me that you DON'T push the yoke forward to increase your descent angle. Especially at power and/or so much so that you land nose gear first. He basically flared the wrong direction, downward and continued to smash the plane into the ground after it corrects itself numerous times. I guess the plane could only take so much fail.

I can see if someone bounces on their mains, stalls to land too quick and makes a hard touchdown, etc. but this is just completely asinine how this guy was trying to land.
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Very easy to sick back and play monday morning quarter back huh? Look at the NTSB data, his flight experience, etc. It indeed was a bad landing but happens. I've got limited experience flying GA aircraft but did some PIO on landings where the instructor took controls. I sucked no doubt lol.
 
I was at a local university with a flight program, and the chief flight instructor was showing me their facilities. We were about to go into a hanger when one of their planes landed nosewheel first. I saw it and cringed. When I said something the chief instructor said, "Yeah, I try not to watch the landings."
 
A while ago a student pilot on his first cross country was visiting my airport. During his landing in a 152 he experienced the 'porpoise' and was unable to recognize or rectify the situation. On the last bounce, he was using rudder in an attempt to maintain center line, and departed the runway at a near 90 degree angle. The 152 came to rest upside down.

He was lucky with no injuries.
 
Looks to me like aft CG might be the culprit here. As he goes by, it looks like there are 4 people in the airplane (or at least some in the back seat).

The only time I've had a porpoise like this is in a Cherokee with two adults in the back seat. One firm touchdown, and the nose pops back up just enough to get airborne again...but not long enough to catch the nose before the gear bangs right down to the runway.

Part of the issue, too, is that when the airplane quickly pitches like that, the pilot tends to get thrown slightly forward in the seat, and most people 'brace' themselves with their hands...which are holding the yoke...which pushes forward....and aggravates the situation.

That's how it appears to me, at least. YMMV.
 
The accident report that txaviator posted, (if I read it right, the formatting wasn't too good) said that there was one pilot, age 31, 95 total hrs, 20 something in type, no passengers.
The aircraft was a pa 28-235. I have never flown one, but have been told by people who have that they feel nose heavy compared to the warriors and 180hp Cherokees. If anything, I would suspect a forward cg.
Looks to me, as others have mentioned that his approach was way too fast.
 
DPApilot said:
What if this was his first solo? I wouldn't say someones flying sucks if I had never solo'd or even been in that situation. It's easy for you to say someone sucks when you haven't had to deal with the situation yourself.
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Solo or not, it sucks. A good CFI will drill porpoise recovery into a student's head WAY before they solo. That was some ugly flying there, and some even worse decision making.
 
SeanD said:
Ive porpoised a few times. Once because I was fairly new at flying and the other times because I was...well, fairly new at flying. I dont know anyone who is a master at landing an airplane. From 2000 to 40,000 hours pilots. Ive had what I though were perfect approaches when suddenly the wind kicks in literally seconds before touching the runway. A strong headwind in a light airplane can induce porpoising. :bandit:
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Porpoising or a bounce or two? I don't know too many experienced pilots that are going to let an airplane get into a true porpoise situation.
 
I blame the pilot's previous training more than anything else.

Sure, he's PIC in the moment, but where'd he learn to fly like that? By the time a pilot has 90 hours, reactions like that don't come out of nowhere.

I drill it in to my customers, over and over, to the point of being annoying--protect the nosewheel! Even after touchdown, keep applying backpressure. Act like your nosegear is made of cardboard. Act like it fell off. Never, ever, push forward after touchdown. Occasionally, under a few circumstances, it's ok to reduce backpressure, but that's it.

I have about two dozen more ways of expressing this idea. Basically, by the time they get their private pilot certificate, the thought of putting any significant amount of pressure on the nosewheel feels unnatural to them.
 
jrh said:
I drill it in to my customers, over and over, to the point of being annoying--protect the nosewheel! Even after touchdown, keep applying backpressure. Act like your nosegear is made of cardboard. Act like it fell off. Never, ever, push forward after touchdown. Occasionally, under a few circumstances, it's ok to reduce backpressure, but that's it.

I have about two dozen more ways of expressing this idea. Basically, by the time they get their private pilot certificate, the thought of putting any significant amount of pressure on the nosewheel feels unnatural to them.
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It is unnatural. When I went to the F-117, one of the events we had to keep current on were landings without using the drag chute. In the 117, the drag chute was used for all landings, but you had to know how to perform them in the event the chute wasn't available, or the crosswinds were out of limits for a chute deployment. Being that the 117 is essentially a lifting body with a full flat undersurface, it couldn't efficiently be aerobraked and was very susceptible to lifting back off the runway if even the slightest bit of excess backstick was applied while attempting to aerobrake. So the procedure for a no-chute landing called for normal touchdown, then briskly get the nose to the runway and hold forward pressure on the stick while commencing light-moderate braking, ending up in about a 9000-10,000 foot rollout in order to avoid hot brakes, another thing the 117 was highly susceptible to. Point is, for me it felt completely unnatural to be forcing pressure onto the nose gear due to my background of always learning and putting into practice "protecting the nose gear".
 
SeanD said:
Ive porpoised a few times. Once because I was fairly new at flying and the other times because I was...well, fairly new at flying. I dont know anyone who is a master at landing an airplane. From 2000 to 40,000 hours pilots. Ive had what I though were perfect approaches when suddenly the wind kicks in literally seconds before touching the runway. A strong headwind in a light airplane can induce porpoising. :bandit:
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Great approach to bad landing reminds me of golf - hit a great drive and second to be on the green in two and then 3-put the hole (or worse).

Flying into Augusta a couple of months ago, I was the only aircraft inbound - straight in for 36. I had it trimmed perfectly, the plane was flying the glideslope on its own. Not a bit of wind, skies smooth like a college girl's ass her first semester ... complete silence. I honestly felt like the plane would fly itself to the runway even if I jumped out.

Then (even though I knew I was setting up for it) WHAM! Main gear strut flexibility test complete. Oh well :)
 
MikeD said:
It is unnatural. When I went to the F-117, one of the events we had to keep current on were landings without using the drag chute. In the 117, the drag chute was used for all landings, but you had to know how to perform them in the event the chute wasn't available, or the crosswinds were out of limits for a chute deployment. Being that the 117 is essentially a lifting body with a full flat undersurface, it couldn't efficiently be aerobraked and was very susceptible to lifting back off the runway if even the slightest bit of excess backstick was applied while attempting to aerobrake. So the procedure for a no-chute landing called for normal touchdown, then briskly get the nose to the runway and hold forward pressure on the stick while commencing light-moderate braking, ending up in about a 9000-10,000 foot rollout in order to avoid hot brakes, another thing the 117 was highly susceptible to. Point is, for me it felt completely unnatural to be forcing pressure onto the nose gear due to my background of always learning and putting into practice "protecting the nose gear".
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Yeah, I had similar issues in the -117

(on flight sim)

:p
 
Old Pete said:
The accident report that txaviator posted, (if I read it right, the formatting wasn't too good) said that there was one pilot, age 31, 95 total hrs, 20 something in type, no passengers.
The aircraft was a pa 28-235. I have never flown one, but have been told by people who have that they feel nose heavy compared to the warriors and 180hp Cherokees. If anything, I would suspect a forward cg.
Looks to me, as others have mentioned that his approach was way too fast.
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This is very easy to do in a 235 (trust me:D) I used to own one. The 235 is very nose heavy with no passengers or no weight in the back. With full fuel and two FAA standard people in front, you are well ahead of fwd CG limits. If you normally fly a warrior and are not familiar with the differences of a 235, it can bite you. I normally carried a 50lb bag of sand in the luggage area.

The other thing I've seen is someone going from a normal Cessna elevator to a Cherokee stablator, learning the hard way about the difference in effectiveness.
 
Until I manage to land a LARGE passenger jet in a river without killing anyone, I am not going to criticize other people's flying techniques.
 
killbilly said:
Until I manage to land a LARGE passenger jet in a river without killing anyone, I am not going to criticize other people's flying techniques.
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You mean you're not going to be a student pilot pulling up videos of landings and critiquing them in a thread you started about how "someone sucks this bad at flying"?
 
MikeD said:
... So the procedure for a no-chute landing called for normal touchdown, then briskly get the nose to the runway and hold forward pressure on the stick while commencing light-moderate braking, ending up in about a 9000-10,000 foot rollout in order to avoid hot brakes, another thing the 117 was highly susceptible to. Point is, for me it felt completely unnatural to be forcing pressure onto the nose gear due to my background of always learning and putting into practice "protecting the nose gear".
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The Citation (for one) needs forward pressure to hold the nose down when deploying thrust reversers or the aircraft can come back off the ground. Not good to be airborne with T/Rs deployed.
 
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