Piedmont PHX Flying (Part 3,294)

EDUC8-or said:
I didn't read the entire thread because there was some grammar arguments going on but I wouldn't be surprised to see PDT open up a PHX base. I was at a meeting this week and Airways needs the lift and PDT has the airplanes. You do the math.

Have any furloughs been canceled or recalls announced?
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PDT, in fact, does not have the airplanes...Our 100's lack the necessary performance for western desert/mountain flying. Using our 100's would probably have them weight restricted to 30 pax if that many. We already don't have enough 300's for the flying we have so sending any to PHX is not gonna happen. At minimum we would have to get some 200's to do this flying and from what I understand Airways corporate is still mulling over whether or not they even want to continue Dash service out west at all. SO in order for this to happen they first have to decide they want to preserve the TP routes, then they have to decide if laying out the cash to purchase the airframes is feasible in the current economy. Some big potential roadblocks there...but we shall see soon enough I think.
 
RightSeatGirl said:
PDT, in fact, does not have the airplanes...Our 100's lack the necessary performance for western desert/mountain flying. Using our 100's would probably have them weight restricted to 30 pax if that many. We already don't have enough 300's for the flying we have so sending any to PHX is not gonna happen. At minimum we would have to get some 200's to do this flying and from what I understand Airways corporate is still mulling over whether or not they even want to continue Dash service out west at all. SO in order for this to happen they first have to decide they want to preserve the TP routes, then they have to decide if laying out the cash to purchase the airframes is feasible in the current economy. Some big potential roadblocks there...but we shall see soon enough I think.
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spot on.
 
Hmm, I have not heard that. I won't argue it's beyond the realm of the possible but I will say very unlikely. In MAG's current state I doubt they would be interested in a sublet because I would imagine they are including the remaining Dashes they have in the CH11 and will be able to get out of them completely. And on our end, I really doubt Airways would allow PDT to lease anything from MAG also due to the company's current financial state. From everything management has told us, very little as usual, they are pursuing the purchase of a few 200's to cover PHX flying in the event we get the routes. Management is also interested in buying some 200's to operate in our current route structure to replace some of the 100's that just don't have a lot of time left until they become impossible to keep airworthy. My end of the line opinion is that the PHX TP routes will go out to a contract carrier. I would not be surprised to see Colgan Q-400's in Airways liveries in PHX this summer. And for that matter, if they were offered the routes on a long term contract I'd wager AWAC would probably pick up some Q's to do the flying as well.
 
RightSeatGirl said:
Hmm, I have not heard that. I won't argue it's beyond the realm of the possible but I will say very unlikely. In MAG's current state I doubt they would be interested in a sublet because I would imagine they are including the remaining Dashes they have in the CH11 and will be able to get out of them completely. And on our end, I really doubt Airways would allow PDT to lease anything from MAG also due to the company's current financial state. From everything management has told us, very little as usual, they are pursuing the purchase of a few 200's to cover PHX flying in the event we get the routes. Management is also interested in buying some 200's to operate in our current route structure to replace some of the 100's that just don't have a lot of time left until they become impossible to keep airworthy. My end of the line opinion is that the PHX TP routes will go out to a contract carrier. I would not be surprised to see Colgan Q-400's in Airways liveries in PHX this summer. And for that matter, if they were offered the routes on a long term contract I'd wager AWAC would probably pick up some Q's to do the flying as well.
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Wow you really have a vivid imagination. Or maybe you can see whats coming, do you use cards or tea leaves??:rotfl:
 
DASH8AV8R said:
Wow you really have a vivid imagination. Or maybe you can see whats coming, do you use cards or tea leaves??:rotfl:
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Imagination? No, it's called opinion. And my opinion is based on years with Piedmont, the state of the times, and trends in Airways managment's decision making process. Can I say for certain what will happen? Hardly, and I never claimed to. I formulate opinion on what my specific interpretation of facts and trends imply as a forecast. If you disagree then fine.

Do you have something to add to the discussion, such as a respectable opposing opinion as opposed to childish instigating banter?
 
1/3 of mesa's dashes are owned. These are heavily mortgaged with payments they can't afford (we'll see what ch 11 does to this).
 
CRJDriver said:
What if PDT does open a PHX base and it goes senior and you won't be able to hold it? Then what?
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It should be a pretty junior base, but if I can't hold it then I will deal with the situation when the time comes. I'll probably just move to whatever base I can hold once LGA closes... enjoy a life of not commuting. :)

But this is putting the cart before the horse... waaaaaaay too far ahead to be worrying about that.
 
I know I'll bid for the TDY if offered, but that will likely go pretty senior. As far as the actual PHX base, difficult to say. I would think the older guys that live in their bases or only have one leg commutes won't be likely to bid PHX if it comes to that. But as far as C/A slots go, the interesting thing here is that we have a lot of guys living in Florida that could make a now two leg commute into one by going to PHX. My opinion, the captain slots may go fairly senior due to all the old JAX base folks. As far as F/Os, man that could go any way. Most of them I have chatted with in my base say they won't bid for it. But company wide, I have no idea what the trend will be with F/Os. I would guess though Jace that you would be able to hold PHX possibly even as a line holder.
 
Hah, you jest, but if PDT was putting a permanent bid out monthly as a standard practice regardless of furloughs or hiring....LOL. It would be like watchin the RV convoys of silver hairs evacuating the Midwest for Arizona and Florida every late fall.
 
RightSeatGirl said:
I know I'll bid for the TDY if offered, but that will likely go pretty senior. As far as the actual PHX base, difficult to say. I would think the older guys that live in their bases or only have one leg commutes won't be likely to bid PHX if it comes to that. But as far as C/A slots go, the interesting thing here is that we have a lot of guys living in Florida that could make a now two leg commute into one by going to PHX. My opinion, the captain slots may go fairly senior due to all the old JAX base folks. As far as F/Os, man that could go any way. Most of them I have chatted with in my base say they won't bid for it. But company wide, I have no idea what the trend will be with F/Os. I would guess though Jace that you would be able to hold PHX possibly even as a line holder.
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Yes indeed. It appears that the base would be very junior, mainly due to the fact that the pilot group at Piedmont is very senior (in age), have established families near the small outstation bases (Harrisburg, PA, New Bern, NC, Charlottesville, VA, Roanoke, VA, Salisbury, MD), and many commute long distances by car to and from these small bases from small towns. Having to commute by car to MDT, then go MDT to PHL, then PHL to PHX would be a very difficult commute.

Also, the old Florida based pilots would have a very difficult commute to PHX. Here's why. Here is a list of all the non-stop flights on January 11th from the listed airport to PHX:

Tampa, FL:
7:15am US
3:00pm SWA
5:20pm US

Jacksonville, FL:
Nothing available

Miami, FL:
5:00pm AMR

Fort Lauderdale, FL:
6:59am US
5:05pm US

Orlando, FL:
7:10am US
2:30pm SWA
5:10pm US

I think Florida commuting to PHX would be very difficult.
 
Three flights, three chances for a jumpseat, per day each out of the two cities where most of the Florida Piedmonsters reside within or a quick drive from...Naww, no chance many of those guys will turn that down for a guaranteed two or even three leg commute they have today. You don't have many FLA boys in LGA Jace, nearly the top half of our C/A's all live there and most of them expressed to me that they would seriously consider PHX. Whether they would really bid the base, it's all supposition and just speculation. The truth, if the base opens, will likely be somewhere in the middle.

Besides, you are comparing apples to apples. The Florida commuters today already have a tough time just getting to one of the East coast domiciles. Going to PHX gives them nothing to loose but everything to gain. I've done it both ways, one-leg commute vs. the dreaded two legger. And one leg is bad enough. If I lived down there and was already commuting north. I'd got to PHX in a second.
 
RightSeatGirl said:
Three flights, three chances for a jumpseat, per day each out of the two cities where most of the Florida Piedmonsters reside within or a quick drive from...Naww, no chance many of those guys will turn that down for a guaranteed two or even three leg commute they have today. You don't have many FLA boys in LGA Jace, nearly the top half of our C/A's all live there and most of them expressed to me that they would seriously consider PHX. Whether they would really bid the base, it's all supposition and just speculation. The truth, if the base opens, will likely be somewhere in the middle.

Besides, you are comparing apples to apples. The Florida commuters today already have a tough time just getting to one of the East coast domiciles. Going to PHX gives them nothing to loose but everything to gain. I've done it both ways, one-leg commute vs. the dreaded two legger. And one leg is bad enough. If I lived down there and was already commuting north. I'd got to PHX in a second.
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Good point, but there are a lot more non-stop flights to and from LGA and JFK from Florida than to PHX. Just sayin'.
 
True, but apart from the infrequent charter flights such as Allegiant there are zero to ROA, CHO, EWN, SBY or Middlevania. And in that case only from ROA or MDT. Though there may be some scheduled FLA service from MDT..I'm too lazy to look it up. My point being the majority of Fla commuters at PDT have a multi-leg commute. And LGA is probably closing anyway.
 
RightSeatGirl said:
True, but apart from the infrequent charter flights such as Allegiant there are zero to ROA, CHO, EWN, SBY or Middlevania. And in that case only from ROA or MDT. Though there may be some scheduled FLA service from MDT..I'm too lazy to look it up. My point being the majority of Fla commuters at PDT have a multi-leg commute. And LGA is probably closing anyway.
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JaceTheAce said:
Good point, but there are a lot more non-stop flights to and from LGA and JFK from Florida than to PHX. Just sayin'.
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Jace would know better, but commuting to/from PHX is pretty difficult, especially on Airways. The only flights I've ever been left behind on - and had to hear about my wife and daughter sleeping in the airport because of - were PHX flights. Especially to CLT and PHL, but I've missed a PHX-MCO flight before too.

I can't imagine many of the northeast guys and gals choosing that commute, most of whom live up there anyway. Even for the FL folks the distance and time difference would mean a lot more day before/day after commuting. You're talking about almost all the way across the country vs. two hour-long +/- legs.
 
I don't know this for certain, going on what some of our senior Fla guys have said, but they say the Fla PHX flights are not filled nearly as much as flights to and from the northeast or even CLT way. Warm to warm sort of limits leisure travel so this makes sense. But I do suppose having to offline jumpseat will make it less attractive as they have no commuter clause protection.

What will be interesting to see is if they even get enough bids to fill the probable 50 or so slots in PHX without forced moves. If Piedmonsters are anything they are not a flight crew group that takes well to change in their personal lifestyles. A move out west is not a move across town or even across a state line or two. Though I really do feel the senior side of the C/A slots in a PHX base will go fairly senior relative to the whole PG..I bet they will have to force move some C/As and recall furloughees into PHX to fill all the F/O slots.

I would love to be based in and live in PHX again like I was when I was a cabin drink slinger. But I'm 40, and my life is in the East right now. It's not a simple thing to move that far. And I am far from alone in that measure.
 
Myself and more than a few PSA refugees would love to come play in the sand once you guys gather up all your lost children.
 
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