Young First Officers Overseas on Big Jets

[Blackhawk]

Some overseas carriers do not pay more based upon the size of equipment. With this scenario senior pilots tend to bid equipment that will keep them home more. My brother does quite a bit of business in Finland and says the ATR pilots are all the old crusty guys who are tired of international flying.

 

[Goonie]

I was talking about Europeans. I know all about Indian and way too much about Mexico. Do you guys do JAA ratings now, too?

We are doing the the JAA ATP ground school and still working on the flight part of it. I went to the UK to get my JAA CFI but came back with a taste for mushy peas and blood pudding.

We have a guy over at Gayviator who's in the KLM academy, and he makes it sound like graduate studies. Lots of test, and psych exams.

 

[Socal321]

It seems like a lot of overseas airlines hire first officers who are around 23-26 years old to fly in large jets such as the 777, 747, A340, etc.

How come that does happen in America?

The simple answer is that in other parts of the world there is no CRJ or ERJ. It's the 172 then the 737, A320 or 747/A340. The only flying they have is with regular airplanes, not RJs.

 

[aloft]

The simple answer is that in other parts of the world there is no CRJ or ERJ. It's the 172 then the 737, A320 or 747/A340. The only flying they have is with regular airplanes, not RJs.

Suuure....blame it on the Canadians and the Brazilians!

 

[Hacker15e]

There should be a cut-and-paste answer to every one of these questions about Europe that comes up.

Why is it that so many Americans have this idea that things are so much better financially in Europe?

Yes, people get paid more there -- it also costs a hell of a lot more to live there.

Stop asking; it's not Panacea.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Why is it that so many Americans have this idea that things are so much better financially in Europe?

Because the grass is ALWAYS greener on the otherside. Always.

 

[Olympic]

15 pages of arrivals, 12 pages of transitions, ONE freaking approach!

"You are cleared for the AMODO 1G arrival RMG 7A transition, ILS 12"

Hey Doug,

Im talking about the flight training towards the ATPL!
Of course I was happy to get vectored straight to VERCE today in Milan MXP ..

 

[granlistillo]

T
Yes, people get paid more there -- it also costs a hell of a lot more to live there.

This is not correct even as a generalization- even with the dollar being weak. Maybe in the UK...

 

[Socal321]

There should be a cut-and-paste answer to every one of these questions about Europe that comes up.

Why is it that so many Americans have this idea that things are so much better financially in Europe?

Yes, people get paid more there -- it also costs a hell of a lot more to live there.

Stop asking; it's not Panacea.

Yet their QOL is pretty high especially for the pilots.

 

[Hacker15e]

This is not correct even as a generalization- even with the dollar being weak. Maybe in the UK...

I can only speak for what I experienced over the last three years.

During all the time I spent in Europe, the Euro was worth about 1.5 the $ and the Pound was worth 2.0.

Despite that, the pricing of most consumer goods was the same as in the US, only replacing the $ with a € (ergo, 50% more expensive). In the UK it was double.

Housing was outrageous (by US standards) in both the UK and Germany (the only places I have experience with personally). Rentals in the UK were about $2.20/ft2 per month and about 3/4 of that in Germany. A friend in the UK had a 800 ft2 1 bed/1 bath home in the suburbs of Cambridgeshire that he purchased for $260,000 US, and that was a 'good deal' at the time as it was a fixer-upper.

Fuel was about $10/gallon in the UK and $7-$9 in Italy and Germany.

So...not sure where you're coming from with your statement, but the cost of living was significantly higher in the places that I experienced it.

 

[kellwolf]

Eh, I don't count petrol prices into the equation. You can't begin to compare European public transportation to American. If I didn't NEED to own a car, I sure as heck wouldn't. If I could take a bus, subway or train to work, I would. Did when I was living in Orlando.

 

[Hacker15e]

Eh, I don't count petrol prices into the equation. You can't begin to compare European public transportation to American. If I didn't NEED to own a car, I sure as heck wouldn't. If I could take a bus, subway or train to work, I would. Did when I was living in Orlando.

Certainly public transportation is better in Europe than it is in the US -- but that doesn't even come close to eliminating the need for a car. It's not the end-all solution, depending on what your family situation is and where you live.

 

[granlistillo]

So...not sure where you're coming from with your statement, but the cost of living was significantly higher in the places that I experienced it.

Your experience as an military expat, with COLA etc is not representative of European experience at all. You also have no commercial experience, or knowledge of getting a paycheck in Europe.
1) Property taxes in most places in the US is higher. Effective tax rates for are similar in most countries.
2) Health care is higher in the US (Even getting a private plan on top of a government plan is cheaper here)
3) Transportation cost are higher in US
4) Food cost are higher in the US
5) Housing costs are really difficult to compare. You really can't even find a house like mine in the US. The only wood in it that I can think of is the closet doors, some shelves and some cabinets. Interest rates are much lower.

The fact of the matter is that many families live on less than $20K (yes dollars) comfortably. If I had to live on modest means it would be in the EU not the US. Hence your statement was not accurate.

 

[Hacker15e]

4) Food cost are higher in the US
5) Housing costs are really difficult to compare. You really can't even find a house like mine in the US. The only wood in it that I can think of is the closet doors, some shelves and some cabinets. Interest rates are much lower.

No comment on all the rest of the stuff, but the last two items are comment-worthy.

Food costs are NOT in any way, shape, or form higher in the US than in Europe, either on the Rock or the Continent. If that were true, there would be no reason for GIs to have a Commissary to shop at. Where do you live with higher food costs than in Europe? I can dig out an old Sainsbury's receipt if you want to item-by-item compare supermarket prices.

Interest rates are much lower where? Surely you can't mean in Europe?

 

[granlistillo]

No comment on all the rest of the stuff, but the last two items are comment-worthy.

Food costs are NOT in any way, shape, or form higher in the US than in Europe, either on the Rock or the Continent. If that were true, there would be no reason for GIs to have a Commissary to shop at. Where do you live with higher food costs than in Europe? I can dig out an old Sainsbury's receipt if you want to item-by-item compare supermarket prices.

Interest rates are much lower where? Surely you can't mean in Europe?

The point of your original post seemed to be that airline pilots make more in Europe because it costs more to live in Europe. This is a false premise. One would only have to check median household incomes to compare the US and EU. People in Europe get by on a let less than they do in the states, in most countries. I will grant you the UK is somewhat different and said so in my original response. Fact of the matter is that Airline Pilots in Europe are aristocracy. In most of Europe Airline Pilots make substantially more than Doctors and Lawyers.

Being stationed in Europe is not living in Europe. Go get some commercial experience and buy a house or two, live on the economy and then you may make some intelligent comments on living in Europe.


BTW,
I paid about 5% mortgage interest on my house in Holland, and the house in Spain adjustable between 3% and 4.5 %. "No points"...

 

[Hacker15e]

Being stationed in Europe is not living in Europe. Go get some commercial experience and buy a house or two, live on the economy and then you may make some intelligent comments on living in Europe..

Actually, I did buy a house locally and live on the economy. I didn't live on base, and I shopped on the economy. My paycheck was coming from Uncle Sam, but very little else was.

My Barclays mortgage was just over 6% and typical at the time I got it.

And, FWIW (which apparently is very little), the two Euro airline pilots I am acquaintances with don't make it sound in any way like they're 'aristocracy'. Their relative earnings, lifestyle, and complaints sound exactly the same as those coming from the US in their position.

Some "intelligent comments"? What about living in the UK and Germany isn't Europe? I had my experiences, and I'm relating what they were. They're just as valid as yours.

 

[Seggy]

And, FWIW (which apparently is very little), the two Euro airline pilots I am acquaintances with don't make it sound in any way like they're 'aristocracy'. Their relative earnings, lifestyle, and complaints sound exactly the same as those coming from the US in their position.

What about their Flight Attendants? The European Ladies are HOT!

 

[granlistillo]

Some "intelligent comments"? What about living in the UK and Germany isn't Europe? I had my experiences, and I'm relating what they were. They're just as valid as yours.

You're right they are just as valid, and I was a little too pointed in my response. Perhaps I should have said that mileage will vary depending on where you live and your lifestyle- Just like the US. It can hard to be to make comparisons even between groups like airline pilots.

:beer:

 

[granlistillo]

What about their Flight Attendants? The European Ladies are HOT!

Well in the BA and Iberia merger, I hope the Azafatas take over the combined company. But that is my preference, and there is no accounting for tastes.

 

[Hacker15e]

You're right they are just as valid, and I was a little too pointed in my response. Perhaps I should have said that mileage will vary depending on where you live and your lifestyle- Just like the US. It can hard to be to make comparisons even between groups like airline pilots.

:beer:

Valid point that I'll drink to...just not on Saturday morning.