Young First Officers Overseas on Big Jets

H

heeha

New Member
It seems like a lot of overseas airlines hire first officers who are around 23-26 years old to fly in large jets such as the 777, 747, A340, etc.

How come that does happen in America?
 
heeha said:
It seems like a lot of overseas airlines hire first officers who are around 23-26 years old to fly in large jets such as the 777, 747, A340, etc.

How come that does happen in America?
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We have guys who are hired into planes like the 757, 767, 747F here, but right now everything is very stagnant due to the passage of the Age 65 retirement rule.

Who knows what the hiring climate will be like in 10 years.

Age does not matter if you have the prerequisite experience.
 
That and a lot of those young guys overseas go through ab initio programs with higher entrance standards than a credit check and a cosigner.
 
kellwolf said:
That and a lot of those young guys overseas go through ab initio programs with higher entrance standards than a credit check and a cosigner.
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Not really Steve.

They come here for training and then BUY a type raiting. They are actually writing bigger checks. It's is for sure a rich kids game there.

Now if you want to talk about ATP standard then yeah, FAA is a complete joke compared to JAA, but a frozen ATPL is not required to get a job there. Deep pockets are.
 
Cadet pilots from many national airlines fit into this description. Places like Emirates, Etihad, Gulf Air, Qatar Airways, Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, etc that have cadet pilot programs have numerous early 20s pilots in the right seat of a widebody. It usually takes them around 8 to 12 years to make captain so they are widebody captains in their early to mid 30s.


Typhoonpilot
 
heeha said:
It seems like a lot of overseas airlines hire first officers who are around 23-26 years old to fly in large jets such as the 777, 747, A340, etc.

How come that does happen in America?
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Hmmm....getting a whiff of entitlement whining here.
 
Well most of the large carriers abroad tend to get a new pilot's feet wet by making him or her fly as a second officer on long haul flights for a while before (usually) moving on to a first officer position on a smaller aircraft. Of course at airlines like Cathay Pacific, who don't have anything smaller than the A330, you pretty much have to start out big(unless they can put guys at Dragonair, but I don't think its the same list).

Here in the US, I can't think of any airline that has second officers, just multiple first officers on longer flights. Anyone who has secured a first officer slot flying internationally at a major US airline likely isn't going to be in their early-mid 20s. The one exception I can think of is Hawaiian, where the 717 seems to be a more senior aircraft than the 763, but thats only because of the QOL that comes with their 717s(i.e. hop island to island a few times then go home at night).
 
Here in ATL the KLM, Air France and Lufthansa crews have 1st and 2nd officers that routinely appear to be in their 20s. Sometimes even the captain looks young(mid thirties). Combine that with the parade of young cabin staff(at least compared to the American Legacies) they bring in it looks like an incredibly fun way to spend a couple days in the states.
 
ryanmickG said:
Not really Steve.

They come here for training and then BUY a type raiting. They are actually writing bigger checks. It's is for sure a rich kids game there.

Now if you want to talk about ATP standard then yeah, FAA is a complete joke compared to JAA, but a frozen ATPL is not required to get a job there. Deep pockets are.
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I was talking about Europeans. I know all about Indian and way too much about Mexico. Do you guys do JAA ratings now, too?
 
At FIT Aviation we have a contract with PTC. Pilot Training College of Ireland. We teach these Irish students and then they go straight into a large jet. They get both FAA and JAA ratings here.
 
ryanmickG said:
Not really Steve.

They come here for training and then BUY a type raiting. They are actually writing bigger checks. It's is for sure a rich kids game there.

Now if you want to talk about ATP standard then yeah, FAA is a complete joke compared to JAA, but a frozen ATPL is not required to get a job there. Deep pockets are.
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Not really, I never bought a Type Rating. I was born and raised in the US went to college got my ratings, was never a fan of the regionals so decided to head to Europe after doing 500 hours as a CFI. When I got to europe I landed a heavy at the age of 22, been here 2 years now and don't regret the move at all. It was basically timing and a lot of hard work that got me here, not my money.

I agree, the JAA ATPL standards are much higher than the FAA .. The FAA though FLYING wise blows the Europeans out of the water, Europe is all theory ...
 
Good for them I say...I don't confuse their position with their ability, knowledge or experience level though, any way you slice it they are still newbies and are being supervised.

I'd be more impressed with the 24 year old captain in the Beech 1900 in most respects.
 
Olympic said:
I agree, the JAA ATPL standards are much higher than the FAA .. The FAA though FLYING wise blows the Europeans out of the water, Europe is all theory ...
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15 pages of arrivals, 12 pages of transitions, ONE freaking approach! :)

"You are cleared for the AMODO 1G arrival RMG 7A transition, ILS 12"
 
Olympic said:
Not really, I never bought a Type Rating. I was born and raised in the US went to college got my ratings, was never a fan of the regionals so decided to head to Europe after doing 500 hours as a CFI. When I got to europe I landed a heavy at the age of 22, been here 2 years now and don't regret the move at all. It was basically timing and a lot of hard work that got me here, not my money.

I agree, the JAA ATPL standards are much higher than the FAA .. The FAA though FLYING wise blows the Europeans out of the water, Europe is all theory ...
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Exactly, i did the same as you did, but i came to Mexico, personally cfi, and regionals were not phases i wanted to skip, but having other, and better options, why not take them....
 
skyrunner1500 said:
And once you have finally programmed the FMS you are cleared direct to the IAF.
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Exactly!

Like reading 15 pages of 10-1P pages and it's more or less contact 123.5 for clearance and engine start, 121.7 for push, switch automatically to departure after takeoff and do the ICAO/NADP1 departure.
 
JustinA said:
At FIT Aviation we have a contract with PTC. Pilot Training College of Ireland. We teach these Irish students and then they go straight into a large jet. They get both FAA and JAA ratings here.
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I think PTC costs 90K Euro (140 ish USD) with no job guarentee at the end of it. Most of the guys flying large jets probably paid another 30K Euro for a type rating at Ryanair, Aer Arann, Easyjet or whatever.
Deep pockets for some yes, the rest benefited from easy credit and probably parents co signing.
 
ryanmickG said:
Not really Steve.

They come here for training and then BUY a type raiting. They are actually writing bigger checks. It's is for sure a rich kids game there.

Now if you want to talk about ATP standard then yeah, FAA is a complete joke compared to JAA, but a frozen ATPL is not required to get a job there. Deep pockets are.
Click to expand...

We have a guy over at Gayviator who's in the KLM academy, and he makes it sound like graduate studies. Lots of test, and psych exams.
 
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