The end of aviation as we know it?
- Thread starter charlie1017
- Start date
It does go both ways. Not more than a few years ago, the RJDC had ASA and Comair pilots suing ALPA for mainline scope allegedly limiting the growth and potential for regionals ('01-03ish timeframe). The loosened scope that occurred was due to what the regionals asked for, and received. They got what they were looking for, and now they're now seeing the effects of it.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
I've often wondered that. I mean, what if we did away with ALL airline regulation? I mean, 121 and everything. Airlines could hire whoever they wanted and fly whenever and wherever they wanted. Training would be all optional. Granted, a lot of people would die, but it would end the "click on the cheapest fare" modus operandi that most consumers have. Just think how much more careful people would be picking their airline if they knew they had a legitimate chance of dying in exchange for saving $100 on their ticket.
juan valdez
Well-Known Member
Anyone have a recomendation on some articles or a book I could read about this whole de regulation thing. I have to admit that I know very little about it other than it seems to be a hot topic. 
Were these same days of the glory days, or good ol days, not the same time as when they were regulated? Or is it the time period right after dereg?
Were these same days of the glory days, or good ol days, not the same time as when they were regulated? Or is it the time period right after dereg?
juan valdez
Well-Known Member
Maybe put a percentage next to the ticket price of the likeliness taht you arrive at said destination?
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
A-300F4-622R
Well-Known Member
You are correct. And that's why I say regional pilots are hypocrites. They want the growth at the regionals so they can upgrade quick and then they bitch when there are no mainline jobs to go to.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Why? And please include those flying corporate jets or cargo aircraft - not just one ones programming weapons systems at 200 agl.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
A very valid point. The charter industry came up with certification standards that allows clients to be assured of the crews qualifications, as well as the company record.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
I don't know the whole history on that but IIRC that certainly doesn't represent the entire segment.
It would be like saying everyone in the military likes to shoot their own peers in massacres.
Its not every single person in the regionals of course, but it was a fairly large movement at the time, and many opinions I personally saw at the regional level supported this (the reduction of mainline scope since it was allegedly limiting regional growth). Again, not saying anyone involved was good or bad, just that for the seeming short-term gain the regionals were looking for then, not much look "down the road" at the effects of that gain were seemingly considered. Regardless, the industry is where it is now.
Bernoulli Fan
Controller
Anyone have a recomendation on some articles or a book I could read about this whole de regulation thing. I have to admit that I know very little about it other than it seems to be a hot topic.
Were these same days of the glory days, or good ol days, not the same time as when they were regulated? Or is it the time period right after dereg?
Try "Flying the Line" vol's. I & II, by George E. Hopkins.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Well, under the CAB the airlines were FAR more regulated. Routes, fares, and schedules were all set or approved by the CAB. The airlines were guaranteed certain profits.
CFIscare
Well-Known Member
We are all hypocrites.
Bumblebee
Commodore
I sir, am not a hypocrite, and many here are not as well. You often see us saying that we would prefer that majors handle their own lift.
... that is making unfair generalizations.
Besides, unless you are a captain of industry, you and I...all of us are just along for the ride.
A-300F4-622R
Well-Known Member
The majority of your colleagues are then. They want growth at the regionals, to upgrade fast and then expect to walk into a mainline job. Yet they get all whiney when that doesn't happen.
charlie1017
Well-Known Member
Wow... Too bad the thread evolved into this---> :argue: 
Bumblebee
Commodore
I am sure many are...I wouldn't necessarily agree that the majority are. Many of my colleagues are going to stick with the airline. I am sure there are many FO's who cannot wait for growth to resume, so that they may get upgraded and out to where there will be fewer jobs.
On point with your comment...We surpassed UAL this year in daily departures...just our little airline.
Just to be clear, I hear what you are saying, but it just stings me when you make an inaccurate statement that includes me. I think you have alot of experience to offer, but that your us vs. them approach does little to further your arguments.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
The problem is simple. The more complex the system, the easier it is for it to be manipulated. I can't think of many ideas much more complex than the patchwork quilt (maybe more like Frankenstein's Monster) of regulation and free markets that make up the airline industry. The final piece is that market manipulation or volatility always favors those with the information and capital to move quickly. Guess who that isn't.
Ultimately, the vast majority of pilots would be better served by either actual, substantive deregulation (which we've never had), or a return to the "planned economy" of the CAB. At least those who were still working. That will never happen, though, because in 21st century America, you get all the government you can afford, and even on the rare occasion our "fraternal organizations" agree on something and determine to act, the money they can toss around is miniscule next to the vested interests on the other side. You might get a few mostly window dressing bills passed (ATP Mins, anyone?) for political payback, but fundamentally restructuring the system is just not going to happen.
And, yes, all of the notions of what you "deserve" are tedious to the point of funny. You get what you negotiate, period. No one cares what you "deserve", insofar as that's even a meaningful concept. I've seen a LOT of people whose idea of what's "right" has a strange tendency to move around based on the size of the airplane they're sitting in and which window they get to look out of.
This is the grand cycle of life on the Veldt, friends. The babies grow to maturity and want their piece of the pie, scratch that, the whole stinking pie, even if the graybeards aren't quite full yet. The graybeards want to keep what they view as theirs, to heck with "the profession". And on and on it goes. What's funny/sad is that neither the pups nor the graybeards are the ones taking home the vast majority of the pie.
Ultimately, the vast majority of pilots would be better served by either actual, substantive deregulation (which we've never had), or a return to the "planned economy" of the CAB. At least those who were still working. That will never happen, though, because in 21st century America, you get all the government you can afford, and even on the rare occasion our "fraternal organizations" agree on something and determine to act, the money they can toss around is miniscule next to the vested interests on the other side. You might get a few mostly window dressing bills passed (ATP Mins, anyone?) for political payback, but fundamentally restructuring the system is just not going to happen.
And, yes, all of the notions of what you "deserve" are tedious to the point of funny. You get what you negotiate, period. No one cares what you "deserve", insofar as that's even a meaningful concept. I've seen a LOT of people whose idea of what's "right" has a strange tendency to move around based on the size of the airplane they're sitting in and which window they get to look out of.
This is the grand cycle of life on the Veldt, friends. The babies grow to maturity and want their piece of the pie, scratch that, the whole stinking pie, even if the graybeards aren't quite full yet. The graybeards want to keep what they view as theirs, to heck with "the profession". And on and on it goes. What's funny/sad is that neither the pups nor the graybeards are the ones taking home the vast majority of the pie.