The end of aviation as we know it?

[wheelsup]

The problem is you guys want it both ways. You expect to get on at a regional with little flight time and no experience. You expect to upgrade as soon as you hit 1500hrs and you expect to get on with a major as soon as you get 1000hrs turbine PIC. In order to do that, the regionals must be a stepping stone..... but if you don't make it to a major, you expect the regionals to become a career and have career pay and benefits.

I didn't know anyone that expected to go to a commuter at low time, the market will dictate they reqs. Back when I was instructing PDT's (Dash 8) hard mins were 1500 TT/ 300 multi. A few years later it was a commercial/inst and they were giving out $5k in bonuses.

 

[poser765]

The problem is you guys want it both ways. You expect to get on at a regional with little flight time and no experience. You expect to upgrade as soon as you hit 1500hrs and you expect to get on with a major as soon as you get 1000hrs turbine PIC. In order to do that, the regionals must be a stepping stone..... but if you don't make it to a major, you expect the regionals to become a career and have career pay and benefits.

Maybe I am one of the messed up pilots but i don't expect anything. Certainly don't expect anything at the minimum flight times. I guess what it comes down to is what are we supposed to do?

Wow thread hijack, sorry.

 

[A-300F4-622R]

I didn't know anyone that expected to go to a commuter at low time, the market will dictate they reqs. Back when I was instructing PDT's (Dash 8) hard mins were 1500 TT/ 300 multi. A few years later it was a commercial/inst and they were giving out $5k in bonuses.

That right there is the problem.... 1500 hrs is still Low time.

 

[swisspilot]

If you want the government to tell various airlines where they can fly, when they can fly, and what they can fly, why don't we just shut the airlines down, and let the government run the whole show?

This is how it works in lots of countries, and it works.....

 

[Murdoughnut]

If the government wants to get money from taxes, they will find a way to do it.

Say for example the taxes cause airlines to go to a 2x/day frequency with 250 seat planes, thus saving the airlines money in reduced taxes. Fast Forward... Now the government says, the people want more frequency so we are going to give you a tax break for each flight per day you have into XYZ airport. Now they shift back to the current system.

Now I agree that 2 mainline flights per day is better than RJs scattered everywhere, but if you think that the government gives a hoot about passenger frequency / your pay / cost of oil, etc you are sadly mistaken. They care about one thing, and thats collecting your money in the form of taxes.

You speak of the government as if it were a person sitting in a dark back room of a bank trying to think of ways to jilt the public.

More accurately, the government is a massive combination of various interests, agendas and agencies. For the members of the House Transportation Committee, for instance - their primary goal is not to fleece tax payers - it's to get reelected. The FAA doesn't care about taxes, except to the extent that it affects their budget. Groups like the ALPA are also an important part of the government - and I'm sure they're interested in far more than increasing domestic tax revenue.

The beautiful thing about American government is that if there is someone looking to empty the pockets of the American tax payer, they don't have enough individual control to do anything about it. So in this case, I think changes can be made without any consideration for tax revenue.

 

[Murdoughnut]

That right there is the problem.... 1500 hrs is still Low time.

As has been discussed ad nauseum on here, it's all relative. I imagine you wouldn't call a combat veteran pilot, with several tours in the sandbox, and only 1,500 hours a "low-time pilot".

 

[A-300F4-622R]

As has been discussed ad nauseum on here, it's all relative. I imagine you wouldn't call a combat veteran pilot, with several tours in the sandbox, and only 1,500 hours a "low-time pilot".

There is no comparison between military and civilian flying.

 

[Inverted25]

There is no seperate flight times for the airlines either. So by making a blanket statement that 1500TT is low time for airlines to be hiring your including the military guys in there.

 

[A-300F4-622R]

There is no seperate flight times for the airlines either. So by making a blanket statement that 1500TT is low time for airlines to be hiring your including the military guys in there.

You are wrong. My airline makes exceptions for low time military pilots especially single engine jet guys. My airline knows that by the nature of what they do, those military guys won't have a lot of TT.

 

[wheelsup]

I remember you made the argument on here that UPS is a career job is because the minimums to get hired are higher.

If the minimums were much higher years ago in the commuter world, why were they not career jobs then but now are when their minimums are much lower?

 

[A-300F4-622R]

I remember you made the argument on here that UPS is a career job is because the minimums to get hired are higher.

If the minimums were much higher years ago in the commuter world, why were they not career jobs then but now are when their minimums are much lower?

The shrewd regional managers lowered mins instead of raising pay and benefits in order to attract enough pilots to feed their machine.

 

[adreamer]

a buddy system for military guys and gals. I can write UPS off as my future career goal.

 

[wheelsup]

The shrewd regional managers lowered mins instead of raising pay and benefits in order to attract enough pilots to feed their machine.

That doesn't answer my question though.

 

[TXaviator]

You are wrong. My airline makes exceptions for low time military pilots especially single engine jet guys. My airline knows that by the nature of what they do, those military guys won't have a lot of TT.

are you suggesting the only acceptable path to a stable career must start with military flying?

how do you propose a new pilot gain experience?

 

[adreamer]

how do you propose a new pilot gain experience?

Jion the military and be the best of best.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

are you suggesting the only acceptable path to a stable career must start with military flying?

It is extremely unlikely the US Military will train enough fixed wing pilots in the future to meet demand at US airlines, so it is moot.

Further, none of the military guys I know have any plans to even try to get airline jobs, too much of a pay cut from what they make know.

 

[A-300F4-622R]

are you suggesting the only acceptable path to a stable career must start with military flying?

how do you propose a new pilot gain experience?

Whatever it takes in order for you to make real world command decisions as PIC in all weather and airport conditions. I suggest 135 freight or charter in order to gain PIC experience and not going directly to a regional from whatever flight school you go to because if you do, you will have never have made a real command decision as a PIC and you will have limited adverse weather experience or experience in complex situations. You will have little of value to offer the Captain of an RJ if you don't have any real command time of your own. You don't know that you don't know.

 

[MikeD]

Further, none of the military guys I know have any plans to even try to get airline jobs, too much of a pay cut from what they make know.

Not to mention too boring.

 

[A-300F4-622R]

Not to mention too boring.

Yeah.... UAVs are so exciting!

 

[MikeD]

Yeah.... UAVs are so exciting!

If someone were stuck with that..........

.....which then again, more and more are being stuck with that. UAVs seem to now be one of those "not if you go, but when" in your career.

I just wouldnt want to deal with pax airliner flying.