Offshoot: FAA DUI Policy thread

[Boris Badenov]

Regardless of your take on the question, the money side is verifiable fact. Its a tax. And being penalized for a crime of which you have not been convicted is so unamerican it makes my skin crawl. If you want summary justice, move to Myanmar.

 

[Inverted25]

for something like an underage, a notice isnt required per 61.15 right? The 61.15 is just for DUI / DWI right?

the first part of 61.15 refers to any drug related arrests
The second part of 61.15 referes to motor vechile actions

No for a underage there is no report that has to be made. The only time it will be reported is on your medical.

<HR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1; COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1>So I have a question for you guys, that is in line with this thread. I got a DWI 10 years years ago. During my last medical (3rd Class) the DR asked me about alcohol related offenses and I disclosed the DWI. Fast forward 3 weeks later I get a letter from the FAA stating that a further substance issue will result in a review of my medical.

My question is, once I pass my PPL checkride will I have to go through another series of background checks?

no for your next medical all you have to put is previously disclosed no change. The letter is the same thing I got. Basically it saying if you have another run in with the law that results in a alcohol related conviction you will have to undergo a substance abuse eval which runs about 3000.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Re: FAA DUI Policy

Wow just Wow. Defending drunk drivers. Just wow. If the law says the limit is 0.08 then thats the limit. How about this DONT DRIVE DRUNK AND THEN YOU WON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT

The problem is I don't drive drunk and have had to have my time wasted for no reason. You are defending the cops/legal system on stopping people for no reason. Also you are defending .08. Maybe you are too young to realize its been .08 for about 5 years and it was a lot higher than that before. It's not like .08 is some magic number they just lowered it for revenue. It's a cash cow for the goverment. When you turn 21 you will get it. It has nothing to do with safety.

if you weren't DRINKING and DRIVING then why were you pulled over in the first place?

If I were pulled over you DUI suspesion then I deserve what I get, but guess what. I'm one of the responsible ones who doesn't have to worry about such things. This is why people like me deserve to keep their license and get preferential treatment during hiring, and those who are reckless and engage in drinking and driving should not be flying or driving ANYTHING.

You just don't get it. Sad. Move to China you'd like their legal system better.

 

[butt]

Re: FAA DUI Policy

The problem is I don't drive drunk and have had to have my time wasted for no reason. You are defending the cops/legal system on stopping people for no reason. Also you are defending .08. Maybe you are too young to realize its been .08 for about 5 years and it was a lot higher than that before. It's not like .08 is some magic number they just lowered it for revenue. It's a cash cow for the goverment. When you turn 21 you will get it. It has nothing to do with safety.

You just don't get it. Sad. Move to China you'd like their legal system better.

if .08 is the milit, then thats all there is to it. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you don't have to follow it. It seems to me that you are displaying anti-authoriy hazardous attitude. Whats next, "oh MDA is 500 feet but thats not low enough I think I'll just go down a bit lower".

I seriously hope you are just trolling here and aren't serious. If not then I sincerely hope that when that fateful day comes, you will be flying alone and theres no one around on the ground...

 

[SpiceWeasel]

So, let me get this straight, you'll have to report an ARREST, and be subject to these rules.

In 2004, I was followed by the Fullerton Police Department into a gas station after I had made 2 quick, but legal, lane changes (which I'm sure everyone here has done). I was in the left lane, and I signaled, checked my mirrors, saw a car a half mile behind, and determined it was safe to continue the lane change to the rightmost lane.

I pulled into the gas station completely unaware. As I stepped out of my vehicle to go get some money for a theatre production I was about to attend (cash only, "Hunger Artists Theatre Company", Madame Guignols Macabre Theatre), I noticed a police vehicle behind me with lights on.

Long story short, I showed my paperwork, and I was about to be released, when the officer noticed my DILATED pupils. He ran some sort of red pen test on my eyes, and asked if I was under the influence. I replied, "no". He told me to step out of the car, and at this point, I was very nervous. My heart rate was extremely elevated. He took my pulse, and then had me sit on the hood of his car. He asked me to do some sort of counting test where I tilt my head up and count to 30 in my head.

The officer then asked "what time did you use?" I replied, "I'm sorry, I don't understand". He replied, "you know what I mean, what time did you do speed?" I replied, "I have not done any drugs, if you'd like I'll take a breathalyzer". He said that wouldn't be necessary. I also explained that as a pilot (student at that point), I cannot do drugs, as it is medically disqualifying. He informed me he knew of plenty of pilots who did drugs. After interrogating me, and my passenger, who admitted to having had drinks that night, he let us go 30 minutes later under the following condition. "If I catch you driving around here tonight, you're going to jail. Your passenger will do all the driving." He concluded with "either you've got weird biological properties making your eyes dilate, or you got lucky tonight that I didn't catch you."

So, long story short, I narrowly avoided being arrested. If I had been arrested, do you think it's fair that I'd have to report it on my medical?

 

[shdw]

just made a mistake and those who have a problem

A buddy of mine, Darrel, a school teacher with a PPL. Actually, the guy that taught me how to fly RC airplanes and got me into the whole "want to be a pilot" club. He got a DUI...

He left a bar and realized he was too drunk to drive, pulled over in a diner a couple blocks up the road. He shut off the car, laid the seat back, threw the keys in the pax seat, and went to sleep. Was woken up by a cop and given a DUI a little over an hour later. The keys were within arms reach...

 

[Inverted25]

He left a bar and realized he was too drunk to drive, pulled over in a diner a couple blocks up the road. He shut off the car, laid the seat back, threw the keys in the pax seat, and went to sleep. Was woken up by a cop and given a DUI a little over an hour later. The keys were within arms reach...

Well that is the law. In Ohio you either get a DUI or a OVI. The different being a DUI you were driving and an OVI you were in the car with keys in arm reach. The idea behind the OVI they say is that the cop caught you just in time to keep you from drunk driving. If you want to sleep off to much to drink you have to lock the keys in the glove box and sleep in the back seat.

But he can still get a medical so tell him to join the group!!

 

[atpwannabe]

So I have a question for you guys, that is in line with this thread. I got a DWI 10 years years ago. During my last medical (3rd Class) the DR asked me about alcohol related offenses and I disclosed the DWI. Fast forward 3 weeks later I get a letter from the FAA stating that a further substance issue will result in a review of my medical.

My question is, once I pass my PPL checkride will I have to go through another series of background checks?

Side note: I think the entire government process for dealing with alcohol related issues is ridiculous. I delt with it in Army and it was always a mess. When I went for my TS clearence I had some pencil pushing DB telling me that something I did 8 years ago was a disgrace and would probably stop me from getting it issued. People make mistakes. Anyone ever see that email about all the senators who have had alcohol and drug related arrest? Pretty funny.

No you will not go through another series of background checks as long as you don't have any further legal entanglements that are alcohol and/or drug related. Otherwise you will have to get a P&P evaluation associated with the HIMS process and enroll in an aftercare program if the FAA deems it necessary.




atp

 

[atpwannabe]

Well that is the law. In Ohio you either get a DUI or a OVI. The different being a DUI you were driving and an OVI you were in the car with keys in arm reach. The idea behind the OVI they say is that the cop caught you just in time to keep you from drunk driving. If you want to sleep off to much to drink you have to lock the keys in the glove box and sleep in the back seat.

But he can still get a medical so tell him to join the group!!

That's crazy for him to be cited "with the keys out of the ignition" and laying on the seat next to him. Obviously he had enough situational awareness to pull over, put keys in seat and sleep it off.



atp

 

[Boris Badenov]

In KY you can get a DUI for sitting in your car drunk ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY with the keys in the ignition. Beatch, if I want to run over my wife/dog/toddler at 2am on my own property, best get out of my way, cause I'll run you over too!

 

[ChasenSFO]

Re: FAA DUI Policy

And hopefully those people aren't pilots...

What the hell? So you're saying if you're changing radio stations and swerve a few feet then get arrested and detained before passing a brethalizer test and being released, you shouldn't be a pilot? Do you really feel this way? Really?

Well I hope you've never jaywalked, or you shouldn't be flying.

I get harassed by local cops out here for being a prankster in highschool, they always asume I'll have drugs on me or something because people I used to hang out with ended up in jail or in rehab. I, however, never did any drugs, and went all 4 years of highschool without a sip of booze. I just hung around those guys to bang the hot asian chicks who partied with them. I was never caught with anything illegal(because I never carry anything illegal), but I still get questioned when they see me around town(2 years after graduation mind you). If they ever think my eyes are dialated or something and arrest and detain me, then let me go after finding nothing, I should lose my medical for being a trouble maker when I was 16 years old? This logic makes no sense to me, I'm sure there are pilots on this board who have been falsely arrested, it can happen.

 

[butt]

Re: FAA DUI Policy

If they ever think my eyes are dialated or something and arrest and detain me, then let me go after finding nothing, I should lose my medical for being a trouble maker when I was 16 years old? This logic makes no sense to me, I'm sure there are pilots on this board who have been falsely arrested, it can happen.

It doesn't matter. All the major airlines have a policy that anyone with a criminal record does not get hired. End of story. Ever arrested = not fit to fly. Thats just the way it is.

 

[ljg]

Re: FAA DUI Policy

It doesn't matter. All the major airlines have a policy that anyone with a criminal record does not get hired. End of story. Ever arrested = not fit to fly. Thats just the way it is.

...And I'm sure you have data to back that up from "all the major airlines"?

 

[ChasenSFO]

Re: FAA DUI Policy

It doesn't matter. All the major airlines have a policy that anyone with a criminal record does not get hired. End of story. Ever arrested = not fit to fly. Thats just the way it is.

Doesn't matter? So if a guy who looks like you rapes a woman down the block and you're arrested when you step outside to get the paper, you're just going to "turn in your wings"? I really hope you're the only one who has this absurd mindset.

"Thats just the way it is". If theres one thing I can't stand, its when people say "Thats just how it is." This is America, if you don't like something, do something about it. People died for us to have that right.

 

[Inverted25]

It doesn't matter. All the major airlines have a policy that anyone with a criminal record does not get hired. End of story. Ever arrested = not fit to fly. Thats just the way it is.

not true at all. I'm related to a guy who flies for Delta and he has a two misdemanors on his record. Had both when he got hired. They look at the total person. Both his happened when he was in his teen years. So by time he got hired it was well over 20 years in his past. There was a article written by the HR managaer at United and he said anything within in the past 5 years is a no go. Things that have lapsed more than 5 years though generally arent disqualifying. What I would tell other pilots who have something on their record make your resume look better so they will look at it and go well he made a mistake but he he has more than made up for it. Like me for example. I have a underage on my record for over 5 years ago. So to make up for it I have my glider commercial and I am working on my glider CFI and I am also getting my SES and MES. Plus I have nurmerosu awards from the city for community work I have done. These are all things I will put on my app to balance out one black mark.

 

[atpwannabe]

What gets me is that I have bad check conviction from 2000. In 2003 & 2005 respectively, I was charged with resisting w/o violence, battery and burglary. The SA office, who is the judicial branch that interprets the law and evidence, to see if in fact a crime was committed, DROPPED; LET ME REPEAT....DROPPED THE CHARGES! But guess what, although I wasn't prosecuted criminally because I was innocent, I'm prosecuted professionally everytime I fill out a job application.

My beef is this; if the charges are dropped, then the entire record should be cleared. Employers, primarily aviation employers all swing on the gonads of law enforcement like some frickin monkey swingin on a vine in a tree. They, in most cases, totally disregard what decision the COURTS have reached and that just chaps my a$$ because now I'm potentially and in most cases eliminated from gainful professional employment.

JMO.


atp

 

[butt]

Re: FAA DUI Policy

Doesn't matter? So if a guy who looks like you rapes a woman down the block and you're arrested when you step outside to get the paper, you're just going to "turn in your wings"? I really hope you're the only one who has this absurd mindset.

Ever heard of the "duck-test". If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

"Thats just the way it is". If theres one thing I can't stand, its when people say "Thats just how it is." This is America, if you don't like something, do something about it. People died for us to have that right.

If you don't like it, find another profession. Bagging groceries at a supermarket, perhaps? Street Sweeper? Mailman? Aviation is a PROFESSION. We strive to be good law-biding citizens.

 

[Clocks]

What gets me is that I have bad check conviction from 2000. In 2003 & 2005 respectively, I was charged with resisting w/o violence, battery and burglary. The SA office, who is the judicial branch that interprets the law and evidence, to see if in fact a crime was committed, DROPPED; LET ME REPEAT....DROPPED THE CHARGES! But guess what, although I wasn't prosecuted criminally because I was innocent, I'm prosecuted professionally everytime I fill out a job application.

My beef is this; if the charges are dropped, then the entire record should be cleared. Employers, primarily aviation employers all swing on the gonads of law enforcement like some frickin monkey swingin on a vine in a tree. They, in most cases, totally disregard what decision the COURTS have reached and that just chaps my a$$ because now I'm potentially and in most cases eliminated from gainful professional employment.

JMO.


atp

According to the law you are innocent, but you either have the worst luck in the world or there's more to the story. Were you sitting at home eating popcorn when the police came in and accused you of resisting arrest? Then 2 years later were you making a peanut butter sandwich when you were arrested for battery and burglary? And that's after a conviction on writing bad checks?

Is it any wonder it raises an eyebrow? At the very least it deserves a good explanation...which you very well may have (and are under no obligation to share with us...my point is that you're either guilty to some degree or really freaking unlucky).

Plus lot's of things that aren't legal related can get your resume thrown away. It's like saying "I've had 12 jobs in the last 3 years and no one will write a letter of recommendation for me...WHY AM I BEING PROSECUTED FOR MY PAST WORK HISTORY? I DID NOTHING WRONG!" The fact that you've been arrested 3 times more (and once convicted) than the average job candidate is no less relevant to a potential employer.

 

[atpwannabe]

According to the law you are innocent, but you either have the worst luck in the world or there's more to the story. Were you sitting at home eating popcorn when the police came in and accused you of resisting arrest? Then 2 years later were you making a peanut butter sandwich when you were arrested for battery and burglary? And that's after a conviction on writing bad checks?

Is it any wonder it raises an eyebrow? At the very least it deserves a good explanation...which you very well may have (and are under no obligation to share with us...my point is that you're either guilty to some degree or really freaking unlucky).

:rotfl:....yes, ROFLMAO.

Resisting arrest - Staying at friend's. Police are called b/c of suspicious vehicle in parking lot. I come out of the bedroom I'm staying in and walk outside. Cop asks if owner is home. I say, "no". He then asks if anyone else is in the house. Again, I say, "no". I walk back in house. Another bedroom door opens and out walks this guy whose car is being looked at. I walk back outside and tell the cops that the car belongs to the guy who just walk out of one of the other bedrooms. Cop arrests guy and turns to his partner and says while pointing at me, "Cuff him." Took this to trial. SA office dropped charges. No crime committed mind you.

Battery - Wife & I get in an argument. She refers to me as a sorry mf. I grab her arm and asked "What did you call me?" She calls cops. Sheriff Office arrives. No signs of a struggle, no signs of physical contact; no punches thrown, nobody slapped or anything like that. We both explain our side of the story. Deputy says, "Ok Mr. _____ you stay here at your home since you have no other place to go; Mrs _____, you go to your parents home. Cool off and talk about it in the morning or tomorrow evening. We both agree. But wait, the Sergeant pulls up and says, "When there is a domestic call in the state of Florida....somebody's gotta go to jail. That some one was me. Eventually my wife and I separated. SA office investigated and determine that no battery took place. Charge dropped. No crime committed mind you.

Felony Burglary - How can you be served your divorce papers by the Sheriff's Office and have your W-2 mailed to you at the same address where two and one half months later be arrested for burgulary of the same address where you've been living for four months. Hell, I even opened the door when the police arrived!

I will say this, regardless of the circumstances of why the police were called in each incident, after an extensive investigation by the SA Office in each and every separate incident, it was determined that I had not committed a crime. IMHO, that should be the end of it......tabula rasa...clean slate.


atp

 

[Inverted25]

butt how old are you because you really seem to lack the idea that people sometimes make mistakes? and do you hold a aviation job?

I ask because while I only work part time as a pilot I have run in numerous, I repeat numerous professional pilots who have minor run in with the laws in their past. Most simple teenage mistakes like underage drinking. Never stopped them from employment. Yet you want people to think any mark on your record will keep you from getting a job. That is far from true.

atpwannabe if no conviction was found you can have the arrest records seal. its simple and easy and will keep you from having to report this on job applications.