B767
Well-Known Member
They're pushing for it in Japan. My bet is on: If the ICAO passes it, so will the FAA.
new 1500 hour rule and pilot pay
- Thread starter embraer07
- Start date
They're pushing for it in Japan. My bet is on: If the ICAO passes it, so will the FAA.
deek
New Member
I see a lot of posts about how people did it in the past and airlines were able to fill slots, but wasn't it "affordable" to train "back in the day"? I mean, my 152 costs $90 an hour wet. Today we're in a recession, or there are website to find out how "crappy" it is going to be till we never get to fly a 747. It seems there are way more reasons to not take this career path than take it, and I'm sure that wasn't the case "back in the day", and it's only the people that dreamed of being a pilot since they were kids who are going to try to stick with it. No one graduating with a liberal arts degree wondering what to do after school is going to go hey maybe i'll become a pilot". I know my high school guidance counselor didn't mention this career path to me.
For all the guys who keep saying they are waiting to see a pilot shortage, what is it exactly that you consider 2007? If the airlines weren't short available pilots would the minimums across the board have dropped as considerably as they had? What really would have happened if oil didn't jump to $150 a barrel and we hadn't increased our retirement age to 65? There wasn't any room to go lower then the 200+ hours some regionals were hiring at. What constitutes a shortage in your eyes?
If that 200 hr mark is the lowest you can go they would have had to do other things to entice guys to sign on with them... If the mins are upgraded to 1500 it will put us exactly where we left off in 07-08. The guys who were in school and just missed that hiring wave are all pretty much sitting on right around that 1500 mark right now.
If that 200 hr mark is the lowest you can go they would have had to do other things to entice guys to sign on with them... If the mins are upgraded to 1500 it will put us exactly where we left off in 07-08. The guys who were in school and just missed that hiring wave are all pretty much sitting on right around that 1500 mark right now.
esa17
Well-Known Member
Lowering the bar.
Hopefully now the 121 carriers have learned from their mistakes and won't get caught riding a moped again.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
A shortage is when airlines are offering big pay increases to entice experienced pilots to come work for them. Artificially lowering minimums to sustain low pay rates and horrible working conditions is not a shortage.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Bad publicity and media scrutiny seems to finally be a strong enough deterrent.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
There was a shortage at the regionals in 2007, and also of time building CFIs (since they didn't need to build much time).
However in most other areas of the industry there were still plenty of pilots. Every decent employer who treated their pilots reasonbly well had no trouble finding qualified people.
No.
Right now, United has upwards of 1000 pilots they can call on were they to experience a shortage. American has a couple of thousand. And there are dozens, if not hundreds, of potential applicants for every job.
Besides that, airlines can't afford what they are paying their pilots now. What makes you think they will be able to raise salaries?
If anything, airlines will shrink their fleets to better match passenger demand and pilot supply.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Well said. Higher salaries etc. Just mean the Clampetts can't put on their flip flops and travel as much. Which needs to happen, no doubt. But I predict severe disappointment for those who think there will still be the same number of crews all pulling down 6 figures. At best the economic entitlement tsunami headed our way just washes out this as yet hypothetical 'shortage'. Being realistic is not being defeatist.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
You mean when AA and other major airlines had gobs and gobs of pilots (the highly paid kind) furloughed? That 2007?
Going back to my 2007 comment... It wasn't an actual shortage because there was never an actual lack of pilots able to fit what the airlines(regionals) were able to ask for. Imagine what it would have been like if they couldn't reduce their mins below 1500 back then. It would have been a disaster. And the regionals will be the only place you will see a shortage be an issue for a long time. The majors wont feel it, why would they. There are countless guys who are able to hop up to a major. The only way pay would increase at a major is if the regionals up theirs to the point that guys and girls no longer want to jump ship since the pay wouldnt be worth it. Which, let's face it, won't happen.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Hey, you and I agree! There was no real shortage of qualified pilots. There was a shortage of qualified pilots willing to work for crappy pay.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Bingo. There might be a shortage of healthcare workers, but you don't see hospitals offering to drop the requirements for nurses to fill slots. I mean, they'll have other experienced nurses right there with them, right?
2007, if it was a shortage, it was a shortage of QUALIFIED applicants. Some of the guys I sat next to even a year later didn't really belong there. Some where humble enough to know it. Some just wanted to upgrade so they could move on before they even knew what they were doing.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
"What's the upgrade time at X?!?!?!"
Damn d00d, finish your instrument FIRST!
We actually had a guy asking the check airman when he could upgrade during his FO initial oral. The check airman sigh, looked at him and said "Son, you have to get through THIS first. And you might wanna concentrate on that."
That's one of those circumstances when you should be able to reach across the briefing-room table and slap.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Or, show them the door stating the words "Never, Good bye."
Oh how it would be in my world.
Clocks
Well-Known Member
I am still unconvinced that is true. These same regionals at the same crappy pay had plenty of applicants when it took 1500+ hours to even be able to send in a resume. The guys preaching about how 250 hour wonders jumped at the first regional because of SJS and didn't care about making $20k/year...made $20k/year themselves at 2000 hours or more. Higher minimums did not result in higher pay.
Are there thousands of multi-thousand hour turbine PIC typed pilots out there who would happily go to a regional for $30k/year starting? A 50% increase in pay? or $40k/year? A 100% increase in pay?
I don't know how they are going to solve a pilot shortage in the future. But if doubling pay still results in really crappy pay for a qualified pilot...it ain't gonna be through higher pay.