tjvpa28
Well-Known Member
Because if you really don't know more now than you did when you got your commercial certificate then you aren't doing your job, and don't deserve the title "Instructor."
new 1500 hour rule and pilot pay
- Thread starter embraer07
- Start date
Because if you really don't know more now than you did when you got your commercial certificate then you aren't doing your job, and don't deserve the title "Instructor."
You're now a professional pilot, treat your work professionally. Work might be flying an airplane, teaching ground, flying passengers, or flight instructing students.
If you're finding certain aspects of your work exceedingly difficult, accept that as a challenge, man!
If you're finding certain aspects of your work exceedingly difficult, accept that as a challenge, man!
tjvpa28
Well-Known Member
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
ahahahaha. That was perfect. Almost TOO perfect. Is a300 secretly running two accounts? Either way, comedy gold! I'm going to go cry I mean laugh now.
Maybe my thoughts were out of order...had a bad day when I posted that comment. It was definitely ironic now that I think about it...so now I guess it's the right time to change my mind. What I really meant to say is MAYBE SOME those zero to hero guys don't appreciate the CFI gig and what it's worth...but I am making assumptions about people/personalities so I guess that isn't the right thing for me to do. Without making any more judgments my point is:
A 500 hour pilot shouldn't be flying a jet with 30 to 90 people on board. Nor should a 500 hour CFI.
That makes more sense...irony fixed.
Callador
New Member
We can only hope that this would help improve starting pilot pay, but in some regards it may not. I remember back in the 80's my Dad was flying for TWE (Trans States) Metro III's. The minimums were the ATP standards. Some guys had even more time than that getting the FO spot. The pay was pretty bad too. I don't know how much exactly, but I remember my Dad having to do other work to make ends meet.
The nice thing was a quick upgrade time, I think he made Captain in about a year. But even then, the pay for TWE was pretty bad.
And like others have said, lots of pilots back then had to have 2500tt to get into anything. I was talking with one of my dad's friends who is a corporate pilot and he said that is what he had before he got his first job. He also bought himself a citation type rating as well, since the company required that you had to have it.
So while the whole 1500tt thing seems new, it has been this way in the past. I also think wages won't change much. The only upside is that more and more regular folks are learning how low pilot pay is. That might help boost it a little in the future. We can only hope
The nice thing was a quick upgrade time, I think he made Captain in about a year. But even then, the pay for TWE was pretty bad.
And like others have said, lots of pilots back then had to have 2500tt to get into anything. I was talking with one of my dad's friends who is a corporate pilot and he said that is what he had before he got his first job. He also bought himself a citation type rating as well, since the company required that you had to have it.
So while the whole 1500tt thing seems new, it has been this way in the past. I also think wages won't change much. The only upside is that more and more regular folks are learning how low pilot pay is. That might help boost it a little in the future. We can only hope
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
Yeah no kidding. When I was getting my private, I flew with a CFI who had like 3200 hours. I asked "WOW, why aren't you at the airlines??" He said that it wasn't too long ago that he needed that amount of time to get in the airlines, but he hadn't been in the right place at the right time. So, he kept instructing and was holding out for a job at one of the east coast outfits. It's been so long since the last real hard recession, that a lot of new folks don't realize what it was like. This 1500 hour stuff is nothing. It likely won't really amount to anything effective. It might hamper things a little bit if a future hiring spree gets as crazy as the last couple, but it won't really hurt the airlines that much. Besides, most of us won't even have to worry about it. The next generation of newbs won't even know the difference.
A-300F4-622R
Well-Known Member
The group of regional pilots who were hired with a few hundred hours during that last hiring wave, have such a warped sense of reality.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
You're generalizing. Some of them certainly do though. Much like some of the guys that came straight out of the military into Legacy/LCC jobs have a warped sense of reality.
This industry takes all sorts. Best you can hope for is everybody to be wiser by the end of the day.
Bullseye.
Hi!
The numbers of licensed pilots at EVERY level has been going down for about 10 years. There are only so many non-121 jobs for pilots. If you can't get one of those, you will need to flight instruct to build your 1500 hours...but how will it work, if the ATP is required for -121?
Let's say you're an instructor with 12 students. You have 500 TT. You add an average of 1 student per month, and it takes them 12 months to make it to CFI. To start our example the FI/student ratio is 1:12. At the end of 01/2013, 1 student graduates to CFI, you add a student, and the CFI guy now goes to work for your flight school, as there are no other openings, in non-CFI positions, because they are already filled by guys trying to get 1500 hours.
So, now there are 2 instructors, and 12 students. In 02/2013, you have another student graduate to CFI, and another new student. Now you have 3 instructors and 12 students. Your monthly hours are going down, but you have nowhere else to go. 03/2013, 4 instructors, 12 students. 04/2013, 5 instructors and 12 students. 05/2013, 6 instructors and 12 students.
How long will it take all these instructors to get their 1500 hours? As the months go by, and there are less and less pilots with their 1500 hrs and their ATP, what will the regionals do?
cliff
NBO
The numbers of licensed pilots at EVERY level has been going down for about 10 years. There are only so many non-121 jobs for pilots. If you can't get one of those, you will need to flight instruct to build your 1500 hours...but how will it work, if the ATP is required for -121?
Let's say you're an instructor with 12 students. You have 500 TT. You add an average of 1 student per month, and it takes them 12 months to make it to CFI. To start our example the FI/student ratio is 1:12. At the end of 01/2013, 1 student graduates to CFI, you add a student, and the CFI guy now goes to work for your flight school, as there are no other openings, in non-CFI positions, because they are already filled by guys trying to get 1500 hours.
So, now there are 2 instructors, and 12 students. In 02/2013, you have another student graduate to CFI, and another new student. Now you have 3 instructors and 12 students. Your monthly hours are going down, but you have nowhere else to go. 03/2013, 4 instructors, 12 students. 04/2013, 5 instructors and 12 students. 05/2013, 6 instructors and 12 students.
How long will it take all these instructors to get their 1500 hours? As the months go by, and there are less and less pilots with their 1500 hrs and their ATP, what will the regionals do?
cliff
NBO
subpilot
Squawking 7600
They figured it out during the 90's and early 2000's just fine. I'm sure they'll figure it out again.
3enginejock
Well-Known Member
The bill is going to be changed so much in the Senete if it even passes at all. There will be a pilot shortage within the next few years and I highly doubt there will be enough pilots out there with 1500 hours and an ATP to fill the ranks of regional airlines.
Just my thoughts, I highly doubt the bill will pass in the Senete in its current form.
Just my thoughts, I highly doubt the bill will pass in the Senete in its current form.
With healthcare dominating the senate, who knows if and when the bill will get brought to the floor. I know the goal is to get healthcare through before the end of the year, if not it may be a while before anything else comes through. Everyone welcomed the govt intervention into pilot hiring, but then was surprised at the govts interest in accessing cvr. If you welcome the govt into your profession good luck getting them out.
esa17
Well-Known Member
1500 is just a number, like 250. It will just be more difficult to get to which is the point. I remember when I was doing my primary training how "amazed" I was that I had logged a full 24 hours in the air. Now that I'm over 1500 I'm amazed at just what a small amount of time that is. There simply won't be a pilot shortage due to the 65 retires nor as a result of this bill.
If it ever happens.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I thought the same at first, but ALPA's Legislative Affairs Dept. seems pretty confident that this is going to pass in pretty much its current form. Thank God.
3enginejock
Well-Known Member
The point of the 1500 hour rule is to get more experienced pilots into 121 cockpits, not to make it more difficult for a pilot to reach that cockpit. In theory it works, in reality your gonna have a LOT less pilots than you do now when or if this bill passes and is enforced. Have you visited any flight schools lately? There arent many new students out there trying to become pilots. CFI's are having trouble finding jobs.
When the age 65 rule starts taking effect which should be in the next 4-5 years, there will be a pilot shortage. Now add in this new 1500 hours with ATP rule and regionals are gonna have one hell of a time filling seats. The government knows this, they wont cripple them forcing government rules on pilot hiring.
For everyone that says they did back in the 90s, well there was no shortage of pilots in the 90s and companies could require pilots to have 1500 hours much as the few regionals that are accepting resumes are requiring now. In a few years I think were gonna see a massive amount of movement.
When the age 65 rule starts taking effect which should be in the next 4-5 years, there will be a pilot shortage. Now add in this new 1500 hours with ATP rule and regionals are gonna have one hell of a time filling seats. The government knows this, they wont cripple them forcing government rules on pilot hiring.
For everyone that says they did back in the 90s, well there was no shortage of pilots in the 90s and companies could require pilots to have 1500 hours much as the few regionals that are accepting resumes are requiring now. In a few years I think were gonna see a massive amount of movement.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I've been hearing about this impending "pilot shortage" for about 15 years now, ever since I started flying. Strangely enough, it never seems to happen. Hmmmmm. 
