titansox
Well-Known Member
Haha I hear you.
Do I have this right?
- Thread starter titansox
- Start date
Training can take up to three years. The 18k is the hourly rate over 3 months. The per diem was like $80 a day when I went to OKC...Once you get to your facility...you make base pay plus Locality.. it aint bad... Its going up over the next 3 years.
I think it's 18k if you worked for a year. When we were there we were getng what, $9 bucks and hour (something like that) plus per diem.
The was to look at it is the academy is your job. Your there to learn. They are paying you to be there. Don't show up for class or your late and you're gone.
You can always try applying to the next OTS anouncement. We had a guy in our basics class that was 19. The process takes a while and its not really labor intensive so you can still go to class in the mean time. The worst that can happen is you get turned down. Even if you do, you can always apply to the next one. If you get picked up then you have a job and problem solved.
titansox
Well-Known Member
Baltimore County is one of the 31 approved school. I'm not saying I want to go their, but its the close to my house. Is Beaver County the school to go too? Is that the class of the ACT schools?
twotwowoo
New Member
I didn't know Baltimore County had a CTI program. Beaver County is one of the best known CTI programs but the FAA doesn't care what CTI program you graduate from, it won't influence their hiring decision. The major benefit you'll get from Beaver County is a Control Tower Operator (CTO) certificate, which will allow you to work at privately-owned control towers. Beaver and Middle Georgia are (I believe) the only schools that offer a CTO.
titansox
Well-Known Member
Ya I'm not sure what school I'd look at. It will be a community college due to the price alone though. But in no way would I feel obligated to go to Baltimore County because its close to because we'd be talking a 1 hour plus commute with no traffic and there is never no traffic on 95. I was looking at Beaver County as well as Miami Dale. Still have a lot of research to do on that front.
This is 110% true and probably one of the biggest lessons you're going to learn (hopefully) at an early age.
You're going to hate your life down the road if you let your parents push you into or away from things.
genot
Well-Known Member
You've gotten great answers. At 19 there is no reason not to go either the military or CTI route if you really want the job. Not that anyone has said this, but often the arguement is made that, well what if you have a CTI degree and don't get hired by the FAA you've wasted all that money and time. The fact is and anyone who has been in a generic white collar job will back me up, a degree is a degree is a degree. Unless we're talking about highly specialised government credentialed work like nursing or teaching. My state school BS in political science netted me the same job as an ivy league business grad, an MBA and someone with an AS in art.
I went to CCBC (Beaver) and would HIGHLY recommend it. They have a real life control tower operated by students. Believe me when I say talking to actual pilots on a radio is entirely different than playing some sim computer game. Nothing else can remotely prepare you for that kind of dynamic environment. The off the wall things you will see on the job are more flukey than anyone could prepare you for in a classroom. Worse still is paying for classes to read the regs and phraseology. Congrats, you can pick out the right traffic call phraseology on a multiple choice test, really it means nothing. Not until you can do that without thinking when two real life airplanes are coming at eachother. The other specialization in the air route traffic control area is run by a very old school very harsh grader who will do everything to break you. I know it sounds harsh, but it absolutely prepares you for when you hit a real facility and start working a scope. Nobody will EVER pat you on the back in the real worldand the only way you'll get better is by hitting your breaking point.
The other advice about getting a class 2 medical is spot on. I know 3 other CTI grads who failed their medical, mostly color vision deficient. They've got the degree, but can't work traffic. I know what I said earlier about degrees beign degrees but IT, thats borderline with industry standard certifications and whatnot. I'd stick with it if I knew I couldn't pass the physical.
Also, take the advice of choose your friends wisely. If you want this job you will have to pass a pretty intense security clearence and background check compared to anyone in the private sector. Nobody knows how well they research your references but if somewhere in your 11 or whatever references they dig up in THEIR backgrounds a few odd things, they may question their validity and in turn yours.
If you want info on CCBC (Beaver) PM me since I went there. If you want info on CCBC (Baltimore County) a few classmates from CCBC (Beaver) who are CPCs in the DC area helped start that program and I field the occasional ATC question from them in my area of specilization. I'd be glad to get in touch with them and respond to a PM about that too.
I went to CCBC (Beaver) and would HIGHLY recommend it. They have a real life control tower operated by students. Believe me when I say talking to actual pilots on a radio is entirely different than playing some sim computer game. Nothing else can remotely prepare you for that kind of dynamic environment. The off the wall things you will see on the job are more flukey than anyone could prepare you for in a classroom. Worse still is paying for classes to read the regs and phraseology. Congrats, you can pick out the right traffic call phraseology on a multiple choice test, really it means nothing. Not until you can do that without thinking when two real life airplanes are coming at eachother. The other specialization in the air route traffic control area is run by a very old school very harsh grader who will do everything to break you. I know it sounds harsh, but it absolutely prepares you for when you hit a real facility and start working a scope. Nobody will EVER pat you on the back in the real worldand the only way you'll get better is by hitting your breaking point.
The other advice about getting a class 2 medical is spot on. I know 3 other CTI grads who failed their medical, mostly color vision deficient. They've got the degree, but can't work traffic. I know what I said earlier about degrees beign degrees but IT, thats borderline with industry standard certifications and whatnot. I'd stick with it if I knew I couldn't pass the physical.
Also, take the advice of choose your friends wisely. If you want this job you will have to pass a pretty intense security clearence and background check compared to anyone in the private sector. Nobody knows how well they research your references but if somewhere in your 11 or whatever references they dig up in THEIR backgrounds a few odd things, they may question their validity and in turn yours.
If you want info on CCBC (Beaver) PM me since I went there. If you want info on CCBC (Baltimore County) a few classmates from CCBC (Beaver) who are CPCs in the DC area helped start that program and I field the occasional ATC question from them in my area of specilization. I'd be glad to get in touch with them and respond to a PM about that too.
titansox
Well-Known Member
Thanks you so much. A ton of great points you made. At the same time you've sparked some questions from my end.
1) As far as the medical exam goes, I'm not exactly in good shape. Not sure exactly what they are looking for on that front. Also my eye site is pretty crappy but I'm going to the eye doctor over the winter break and will be getting glasses and or contact. I assume that will be fine right?
2) As for the security clearance... My mother has an FBI record. No she didn't kill any one but it is a pretty long and funny story. Could that be a problem?
genot
Well-Known Member
Define crappy. On initial hire they run an EKG to check for an irregular heart beat, check to see if your blood pressure is within a set normal range for your age, run a hearing, vision, color vision screen, check you for hernia and ask that you list all meds you're on and any major illnesses or inpatient hospitilizations. On the balance it isn't that bad. I've got 20/200 vision corrected to 20/20, which is the key. My blood pressure though, oh boy. A doctor/nurse takes it and it skyrockets. I was nervous on my initial hire medical. I take mine regularly since I have a family history, its high but within standard, 135/90 I THINK is standard (need to quit smoking). I see a white coat and it hits 160/110. The aviation medical examiners are good about knowing that 99% of the people they see are nervous. I had mine taken more than once on my initial hire.
The other medical thing is you would not believe the list of meds a controller cannot be on. If you're on one of them, no chance. I'm dating a nurse practitioner who when she saw the list (yes you cannot take benydryl) which is about 4 pages was absolutely speechless for the first and only time since I met her
I'd address any questions to the ask a medical examiner (never frequent it, sorry that I don't know the exact title) forum on this site.
As for the FBI thing. I guess it depends on what it is. If its funny I suppose it can be explained if needed. I wouldn't wory too much, its more about you.
The other medical thing is you would not believe the list of meds a controller cannot be on. If you're on one of them, no chance. I'm dating a nurse practitioner who when she saw the list (yes you cannot take benydryl) which is about 4 pages was absolutely speechless for the first and only time since I met her
I'd address any questions to the ask a medical examiner (never frequent it, sorry that I don't know the exact title) forum on this site. As for the FBI thing. I guess it depends on what it is. If its funny I suppose it can be explained if needed. I wouldn't wory too much, its more about you.
titansox
Well-Known Member
I don't know what my eye score thingy is. I passed my permit test eye exam. And yes I don't have my license yet. Wouldn't it be funny if I leaned to land an airplane before I learned to park a car? I guess that won't be the case if I go to a community college in PA. haha.Define crappy. On initial hire they run an EKG to check for an irregular heart beat, check to see if your blood pressure is within a set normal range for your age, run a hearing, vision, color vision screen, check you for hernia and ask that you list all meds you're on and any major illnesses or inpatient hospitilizations. On the balance it isn't that bad. I've got 20/200 vision corrected to 20/20, which is the key. My blood pressure though, oh boy. A doctor/nurse takes it and it skyrockets. I was nervous on my initial hire medical. I take mine regularly since I have a family history, its high but within standard, 135/90 I THINK is standard (need to quit smoking). I see a white coat and it hits 160/110. The aviation medical examiners are good about knowing that 99% of the people they see are nervous. I had mine taken more than once on my initial hire.
The other medical thing is you would not believe the list of meds a controller cannot be on. If you're on one of them, no chance. I'm dating a nurse practitioner who when she saw the list (yes you cannot take benydryl) which is about 4 pages was absolutely speechless for the first and only time since I met her
As for the FBI thing. I guess it depends on what it is. If its funny I suppose it can be explained if needed. I wouldn't wory too much, its more about you.
twotwowoo
New Member
My vision is 20/2000 (not 200, TWO THOUSAND) and it's corrected to 20/20. I literally can't see my hand in front of my face without my glasses, and I hold a 1st Class Medical. As long as it's correctable to 20/20 you will be fine.
As for the medications thing, it is a good idea to not take ANY medication unless it is prescribed by a doctor AND specifically listed on the FAA's approved medication list. That means no Nyquil, Benadryl, and other normal OTC medications. Dr. Forred in the "Ask a Flight Surgeon" section could probably provide you with information on what medicines are approved.
As far as your mom's background, I don't know what, if any, impact that will have on your application. Remember, "guilt by association" is unconstitutional and illegal. I would make sure I choose GOOD references for the background check (you'll need 11) and avoid hanging out with those engaging in illegal activities (even "minor" stuff like underage drinking).
As for the medications thing, it is a good idea to not take ANY medication unless it is prescribed by a doctor AND specifically listed on the FAA's approved medication list. That means no Nyquil, Benadryl, and other normal OTC medications. Dr. Forred in the "Ask a Flight Surgeon" section could probably provide you with information on what medicines are approved.
As far as your mom's background, I don't know what, if any, impact that will have on your application. Remember, "guilt by association" is unconstitutional and illegal. I would make sure I choose GOOD references for the background check (you'll need 11) and avoid hanging out with those engaging in illegal activities (even "minor" stuff like underage drinking).
jeffm1999
New Member
Sorry for hijacking your thread Titan, but maybe others will find this information useful also. Here are the vision standards for initial employment:
ATCS MEDICAL QUALIFICATION STANDARDS
Air Traffic Control Personnel - Series GS2152
INITIAL EMPLOYMENT
Applicants for initial appointment to air traffic control specialist positions must comply with the following requirements:
Eye
(1) The applicant must demonstrate: Distant visual acuity of 20/20 in each eye separately, without correction, or distant visual acuity of 20/200 or better in each eye separately, with correction to 20/20 in each eye. Glasses or contact lenses are permitted.
(2) The applicant must demonstrate: Near visual acuity of v=.50 (or equivalent according to table of equivalent scale) or better in each eye separately without correction or near visual acuity of v1.25 or better in each eye separately, with correction to v=.50 in each eye. Glasses or contact lenses are permitted.
(3) An applicant who must utilize both glasses and contact lenses to demonstrate acceptable near and distant vision is disqualified.
(4) The applicant must demonstrate normal color vision.
(5) The applicant must demonstrate normal central and peripheral fields of vision.
(6) If any medication is routinely required for control of intraocular tension, the applicant is disqualified.
(7) The applicant must demonstrate no hyperhoria or hypophia greater than one prism diopter.
(8) The applicant must demonstrate no esophoria greater than six prism diopters.
(9) The applicant must demonstrate no exophoria greater than six prism diopters.
(10) If examination, including tonometry, of either eye or adnexa reveals any form of glaucoma or cataract formation, uveitis, or any other acute or chronic pathological condition that would be likely to interfere with proper function or likely to progress to that degree, the applicant is disqualified.
(11) An applicant under any form of treatment for any chronic disease of either eye is disqualified.
(12) The applicant must demonstrate full range of motion of external ocular muscles.
If I am reading (1) correctly, it looks like uncorrected has to be better than 20/200. I'm obviously not an optometrist, so some of the stuff looks pretty foreign to me.
Here's the link to where I got the info:
http://www.leftseat.com/atc/standard2.htm
ATCS MEDICAL QUALIFICATION STANDARDS
Air Traffic Control Personnel - Series GS2152
INITIAL EMPLOYMENT
Applicants for initial appointment to air traffic control specialist positions must comply with the following requirements:
Eye
(1) The applicant must demonstrate: Distant visual acuity of 20/20 in each eye separately, without correction, or distant visual acuity of 20/200 or better in each eye separately, with correction to 20/20 in each eye. Glasses or contact lenses are permitted.
(2) The applicant must demonstrate: Near visual acuity of v=.50 (or equivalent according to table of equivalent scale) or better in each eye separately without correction or near visual acuity of v1.25 or better in each eye separately, with correction to v=.50 in each eye. Glasses or contact lenses are permitted.
(3) An applicant who must utilize both glasses and contact lenses to demonstrate acceptable near and distant vision is disqualified.
(4) The applicant must demonstrate normal color vision.
(5) The applicant must demonstrate normal central and peripheral fields of vision.
(6) If any medication is routinely required for control of intraocular tension, the applicant is disqualified.
(7) The applicant must demonstrate no hyperhoria or hypophia greater than one prism diopter.
(8) The applicant must demonstrate no esophoria greater than six prism diopters.
(9) The applicant must demonstrate no exophoria greater than six prism diopters.
(10) If examination, including tonometry, of either eye or adnexa reveals any form of glaucoma or cataract formation, uveitis, or any other acute or chronic pathological condition that would be likely to interfere with proper function or likely to progress to that degree, the applicant is disqualified.
(11) An applicant under any form of treatment for any chronic disease of either eye is disqualified.
(12) The applicant must demonstrate full range of motion of external ocular muscles.
If I am reading (1) correctly, it looks like uncorrected has to be better than 20/200. I'm obviously not an optometrist, so some of the stuff looks pretty foreign to me.
Here's the link to where I got the info:
http://www.leftseat.com/atc/standard2.htm
titansox
Well-Known Member
You are not hijacking the thread dude. Keep the information coming.
I don't think my eyes are too bad. I should probably get glasses/contact for personal reason if nothing else. Like I said I passed my permit eye exam and when I was at the doctors in October, I passed the eye exam there so I don't think I'm in terrible shape.
I'm not on any perceptions. I don't think I have had any real health issues in my life outside of childhood asthma.
On a side note, I will be heading up to BWI in a few hours! Going to visit my family up in New Hampshire. I love airports, especially BWI! They upgraded it so much over the last 10 years.
I don't think my eyes are too bad. I should probably get glasses/contact for personal reason if nothing else. Like I said I passed my permit eye exam and when I was at the doctors in October, I passed the eye exam there so I don't think I'm in terrible shape.
I'm not on any perceptions. I don't think I have had any real health issues in my life outside of childhood asthma.
On a side note, I will be heading up to BWI in a few hours! Going to visit my family up in New Hampshire. I love airports, especially BWI! They upgraded it so much over the last 10 years.
titansox
Well-Known Member
I talked to my dad about this and it went really really well. He took it real well and was very intrigued by the idea. His one concern was the whole "what if you don't make it" thought, and rightfully so. But all in all he was very reasonable about the situation. I haven't talked to my mom and I expect she'll give me more opposition. However she doesn't have much say in this sorta thing, especially since she her self didn't go to college. So I'm feeling pretty good about this situation.
