bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
You never answered my question regarding fairness of the rule change.
Another Skywest ALPA Drive
- Thread starter mrivc211
- Start date
You never answered my question regarding fairness of the rule change.
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
Well, if they wanted to integrate, they are welcome to come to our bases, but they won't be allowed to bid above 1 SKY pilot. If two ASA pilots come to say....LAX.....then their relative seniority would effect their positioning.
IE
50 Captains in LAX
40 are SKYW and 10 are ASA
The top 40 would be SKYW and the bottom 10 ASA. Among those 10, their seniority would play out.
IE
50 Captains in LAX
40 are SKYW and 10 are ASA
The top 40 would be SKYW and the bottom 10 ASA. Among those 10, their seniority would play out.
We would be a much stronger group if ASA and SKYW integrated. There wouldn't be any more of whipsawing the groups against each other. Also, our costs should decrease significantly. There would be no more need for 2 completely different sets of management. I highly doubt that many ASA pilots want your bases so I don't think that'd be much of a problem. If we did integrate, I'm sure it would be done fairly (not complete DOH because we have a much more senior group).
That said, there's no need to worry about it. Most SKYW pilots are so drunk on the company koolaid that when chip or jerry says vote no we'll give you the PPO back, everyone will be in line voting no.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Guys like pat84106 would blow up if they had to be placed on a list below any ASA pilot.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
But then you could get ASA's CBA which is much better than the nothing you have now.
bike21
9-5 Ruins Lives
Let's cross the bridge when it gets here. I would certainly hope we could come to a very fair agreement, there will always be individuals losers & winners in any merger.
And you would be incorrect. As a reserve, I get around the system quite a bit. There are certainly more than a few who are ready to change the status quo and growing by the day. Yes, as with any company we have our share of mass consumption Kool-Aid types (just met an ASA captain the other week that was one actually), but I fully believe change is afoot
Bumblebee
Commodore
...why would we fight tooth and nail to merge the pilot groups?
Also if we were to merge the lists, I would say that we should do the right thing and make it based on % blending of seniority and date of hire within percentage blocks. By doing that we could actually find some unity after the merge and we wouldn't end up like AA. Why would we want to always be saying, you're ASA...you're SkyWest? If we do it then lets do it and get it over with and not poison our whole future together.
Also if we were to merge the lists, I would say that we should do the right thing and make it based on % blending of seniority and date of hire within percentage blocks. By doing that we could actually find some unity after the merge and we wouldn't end up like AA. Why would we want to always be saying, you're ASA...you're SkyWest? If we do it then lets do it and get it over with and not poison our whole future together.
mxflyer
Well-Known Member
I hope not. I know and like a lot of guys at SKYW but we're better off separate.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
No, you're not better off separate. Not everyone will be happy in a merging of the lists. Some will benefit, some will not....as individuals; but it can be equitable for everyone. Instead of acting like children, get together and work for a common good. MANY are stronger than a FEW.
SFCC/UND
Well-Known Member
Instead of acting like children, get together and work for a common good. MANY are stronger than a FEW.
Good luck with that, pilots are known to know to cry and moan
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
They can't whipsaw if you just negotiate as one, or together. What one group gets, so does the other.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Never said it was. I'm just telling you that I think it would be a bad idea unless the SkyWest pilots can demonstrate a widespread interest with a likely positive outcome.
I'd love to see you guys join ALPA, I just don't want to see us spend a bunch of money on a useless endeavor. I just haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that your pilot group has had some big shift that would lead to a successful drive. I certainly hope I'm wrong about that, though.
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
Skywest pilots demonstrate a widespread interest?
The only time I saw that happen was when the company changed the booze rule from 12 hours to 8. So many pilots made an uproar that they quickly changed it back.
You know, for me, it makes no difference if ALPA is voted in or not as far as "the big picture". I'm "getting mine" through other means. So for me to still volunteer my time in my opinion, demonstrates respect for this profession and my fellow pilots, industry wide.
Trust me when I say the few of us at SKYW that are pro ALPA, are all you guys at the other carriers have in hopes of converting some fence sitters or anti ALPA guys. Because once we stop caring, you can forget even the small voice were making now.
The only time I saw that happen was when the company changed the booze rule from 12 hours to 8. So many pilots made an uproar that they quickly changed it back.
You know, for me, it makes no difference if ALPA is voted in or not as far as "the big picture". I'm "getting mine" through other means. So for me to still volunteer my time in my opinion, demonstrates respect for this profession and my fellow pilots, industry wide.
Trust me when I say the few of us at SKYW that are pro ALPA, are all you guys at the other carriers have in hopes of converting some fence sitters or anti ALPA guys. Because once we stop caring, you can forget even the small voice were making now.
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
As someone who would be at the bottom of both lists, I have to ask, why would you fight a fair and easy way of integration? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for providing fences to protect either group for several years, but both groups have similar aircraft types and identical career expectations, so why would you insist on an unfair advantage? (reminder: I'd be junior regardless, so I have no vested interest in the argument)
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
You answered your own question. You'd be jr regardless. I sit at the top 30% of our company. With an integration, I'm sure ASA which is a much more sr pilot group would fight for a 1 for 1 merging. So I'd find myself 10 years away from holding LAX instead of another year or two.
And with that answer.........were going into a big what if scenario which would never end, so I'll bring the speculation to an end and not comment on a maybe what if merger of lists.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
I wouldn't just put it like that.
There are lots of politics, history and intricacies involved in a merger.
Check out the Nicolai award for AmWest/US. AMR/TWA...it goes on and on.
I'm doing a "research" project related to that right now anyway....
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
Ok, I have to poke fun - you started a speculative thread but you don't want to speculate on one of the possibilities?
And, no I did not answer my own question - I asked why you would fight a fair way of integration....
ASA and Skywest have very similar histories - both started around the same time and followed a very similar growth pattern and currently have a very similar fleet. How do you justify telling another pilot that their time is worth less than yours?
Again, nothing personal - I have no bone in the argument but I don't get the sense of entitlement that is so pervasive in this industry.
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
You would be at the top 30% of the new list as well. You really think that droves of senior ASA guys would be flocking to LAX? If you guys join ALPA and don't integrate you are going to be whipsawed like crazy, just wait until the economy picks back up and there are more RFPs out to bid on.
At RAH we have one list and one (crappy) contract. Management can't whipsaw us and if Im over at CHQ I don't really have to worry about any RAH pilots coming over and screwing up my seniority. You have your global seniority and then you have your seniority on your certificate. The only time it would matter would be upgrading. But your crazy if you think that you guys don't need to integrate the lists at some point.
I can see it now...
To all Skywest and ASA pilots:
"Delta has more flying for us to bid on. Currently we are too expensive to be competitive. The flying consists of 45 200's and 20 new 900's. This would mean massive upgrades and a ton of new hiring. However since we are not competitive we are asking both pilots groups for concessions. A 15% pay decrease and..."
Who wants it more...
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Colgan's been ALPA for a while now. Lemme check......yeah, we're still separate. In fact, the "unsuccessful TA" scope language didn't even trigger an automatic merger if the criteria were met. It still said it was up to the pilot groups.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Eh, they'd try it. Nevermind the fact there's no room in Delta's scope for more -900s. I think I have to say that about every 3 days around here to quell some rumor or another.