Buzzing of Santa Monica Pier raises safety questions

This guys is a fool. Honestly, you learn about airspace and the rules of that airspace to abide by them. Not to make it your own personal playground. Does anyone actually feel that it was safe for this tool to do aerobatic manuevers that low and fast? Famous last words "watch this" come to mind. It would be one thing if it was an actual airshow with an experienced aerobatic flying but flying that low near a public structure without prior authorization is foolish.

Its not about who's manly, its about following the rules and acting professional with your pilot privileges. If you wanna be maverick and impress a crowd compete in a local aerobatic competition.
 
CK said:
After watching the video I'm not sure how anyone could defend him or possibly justify it.



Is it?

Alex.
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I would think that knowingly doing so would be a criminal offense - I just remember when they yanked my medical they threatened all sorts of FBI action and federal criminal stuff if I didn't return it.
 
3green said:
1: This guys is a fool. Honestly, you learn about airspace and the rules of that airspace to abide by them. Not to make it your own personal playground.

2: Does anyone actually feel that it was safe for this tool to do aerobatic manuevers that low and fast? Famous last words "watch this" come to mind.

3: It would be one thing if it was an actual airshow with an experienced aerobatic flying but flying that low near a public structure without prior authorization is foolish.

4: Its not about who's manly, its about following the rules and acting professional with your pilot privileges. If you wanna be maverick and impress a crowd compete in a local aerobatic competition.
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1: Why is he a fool? If people weren't so airplane jittery and we knew the FAA wouldn't care at all if he did this, would he still be a fool? Is he a fool because his certificates are on the line, or in this case, already in the bin? Or do low-level flying and aerobatics make him a fool?

2: I feel that it is safe to do low-level aerobatics, as long as you know what your doing. Plus from the looks of the video and the complaints, he was over a LARGE quantity of water, seems pretty safe to me? Who's to judge if he is competent enough to do aerobatics or not? We don't know if he has 10,000 hours of flight time doing low-level aerobatics or not. Is Sean D. Tucker a fool? How about people that jump out of perfectly good airplanes?

3: Once again, what and who makes an experienced aerobatic pilot is more of an opinion. I don't know much about getting authorization from ATC to do high-speed passes and buzz the Santa Monica pier plus the permission to do some loops, rolls, and anything else in between, but I think that request would probably end up being a laugh/joke, or just a big NO.

4: Yeah, but they don't have ferris wheels and cotton candy at the aerobatic competitions....


+1 About people having a free air show and them crying and being snitches about it.


I'm not trying to be an rear-end about anything, or promote "unsafe" and "foolish" flying. I'm just tired of hearing pilots who are promoting general aviation, warbirds, and the sheer awesomeness of living in America. If I was a little kid and saw this, I would be jumping up and down screaming in excitement and would be asking my parents how we get on that ride...

Just my honest opinion. :pirate:
 
Okie_Pilot said:
1: Why is he a fool? If people weren't so airplane jittery and we knew the FAA wouldn't care at all if he did this, would he still be a fool? Is he a fool because his certificates are on the line, or in this case, already in the bin? Or do low-level flying and aerobatics make him a fool?

2: I feel that it is safe to do low-level aerobatics, as long as you know what your doing. Plus from the looks of the video and the complaints, he was over a LARGE quantity of water, seems pretty safe to me? Who's to judge if he is competent enough to do aerobatics or not? We don't know if he has 10,000 hours of flight time doing low-level aerobatics or not. Is Sean D. Tucker a fool? How about people that jump out of perfectly good airplanes?

3: Once again, what and who makes an experienced aerobatic pilot is more of an opinion. I don't know much about getting authorization from ATC to do high-speed passes and buzz the Santa Monica pier plus the permission to do some loops, rolls, and anything else in between, but I think that request would probably end up being a laugh/joke, or just a big NO.

4: Yeah, but they don't have ferris wheels and cotton candy at the aerobatic competitions....


+1 About people having a free air show and them crying and being snitches about it.


I'm not trying to be an rear-end about anything, or promote "unsafe" and "foolish" flying. I'm just tired of hearing pilots who are promoting general aviation, warbirds, and the sheer awesomeness of living in America. If I was a little kid and saw this, I would be jumping up and down screaming in excitement and would be asking my parents how we get on that ride...

Just my honest opinion. :pirate:
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I appreciate your honest opinion, but no amount of experience will affect whether or not your lose an engine while performing these stunts. Then what? How many professionally trained stunt pilots have ended their careers as smoking holes in the ground? Spectators attending an air show subject themselves to a certain amount of risk - it's an implied contract. But a family at the beach makes no such agreement.

I'm not a parent, but I would also imagine I'd be pretty pissed if I had a young child or baby with me while this guy was flying this low - I don't know how these things work, but I would imagine the possibility of hearing damage isn't too far off - for an infant anyways.

And in an era where GA is being attacked, any pilot who cares about the longevity of this hobby of ours should be kicking this guy in the nuts. Don't be a (male appendage) ... I don't know why that's so hard for people sometimes
 
I can't believe that some people here are defending him. Really... I thought this was a professional pilot's forum. Come on, Really! There are A LOT of planes in LAX airspace and he is flying around like he owns it all. Busting airspeeds, clearances, minimum safe altitudes, and reckless endangerment to others. This is air show type flying and you do understand that air shows have TFR's built around them for the obvious reasons.
 
subpilot said:
I can't believe that some people here are defending him. Really... I thought this was a professional pilot's forum. Come on, Really! There are A LOT of planes in LAX airspace and he is flying around like he owns it all. Busting airspeeds, clearances, minimum safe altitudes, and reckless endangerment to others. This is air show type flying and you do understand that air shows have TFR's built around them for the obvious reasons.
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How many of the guys supporting this Delta-Bravo do you think are even old enough to rent a car? That probably explains it more than anything :)
 
Sometimes I think that we forget that a large majority of the public aren't interested in airplanes, don't understand much about them, and can be easily scared by airplanes doing something out of the ordinary.
 
Douglas said:
I can't think of a better day at the beach.
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Holocene said:
wtf, free airshow and people cry and call the cops...
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You guys are kidding right? The guy should be in jail. I would have called the FAA and reported him myself. These are the kind of irresponsible acts that increase our insurance, make more regs, get bans/moratoriums on these kinds of aircraft and endanger the public. I was in SMO just a few days ago. This airport has enough issues with the airport neighbors without a giant flying ego giving them more fodder. Too bad there weren't a couple of armed FA-18s nearby. THAT would have been You Tube worthy.
 
Murdoughnut said:
I appreciate your honest opinion, but no amount of experience will affect whether or not your lose an engine while performing these stunts. Then what? How many professionally trained stunt pilots have ended their careers as smoking holes in the ground? Spectators attending an air show subject themselves to a certain amount of risk - it's an implied contract. But a family at the beach makes no such agreement.

I'm not a parent, but I would also imagine I'd be pretty pissed if I had a young child or baby with me while this guy was flying this low - I don't know how these things work, but I would imagine the possibility of hearing damage isn't too far off - for an infant anyways.

And in an era where GA is being attacked, any pilot who cares about the longevity of this hobby of ours should be kicking this guy in the nuts. Don't be a dick ... I don't know why that's so hard for people sometimes
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That's an agreement you will have to make with yourself. The same with flying over a mountain-range or the Great lakes with a single engined aircraft. The same with jumping out of airplanes or riding motorcycles. Anything can happen, anywhere. You decide whether or not to take that risk.

"Spectators attending an air show subject themselves to a certain amount of risk - it's an implied contract. But a family at the beach makes no such agreement. " I do have to agree with that. Very good point.

Yes, GA is being attacked and it's sad. I am disappointed that this will bring more discontent and hate for GA than good. If all the rules and regulations didn't exist currently and the FAA wasn't the one to say he broke a whole pamphlet full of them, would you still have the same opinion about him?

I guess everybody doesn't like low fast flying airplanes. Like some people don't like guns.


If there is an age requirement or a set of qualifications that had to be accomplished before I can express my opinion on this forum, please let me know. I didn't know any one of those had to be met.
 
Okie_Pilot said:
That's an agreement you will have to make with yourself. The same with flying over a mountain-range or the Great lakes with a single engined aircraft. The same with jumping out of airplanes or riding motorcycles. Anything can happen, anywhere. You decide whether or not to take that risk.

"Spectators attending an air show subject themselves to a certain amount of risk - it's an implied contract. But a family at the beach makes no such agreement. " I do have to agree with that. Very good point.

Yes, GA is being attacked and it's sad. I am disappointed that this will bring more discontent and hate for GA than good. If all the rules and regulations didn't exist currently and the FAA wasn't the one to say he broke a whole pamphlet full of them, would you still have the same opinion about him?

I guess everybody doesn't like low fast flying airplanes. Like some people don't like guns.


If there is an age requirement or a set of qualifications that had to be accomplished before I can express my opinion on this forum, please let me know. I didn't know any one of those had to be met.
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No age requirement - just a recognition that your opinions about what is and is not responsible change with age. Lord knows they did for me.
 
NJA_Capt said:
You guys are kidding right? The guy should be in jail. I would have called the FAA and reported him myself. These are the kind of irresponsible acts that increase our insurance, make more regs, get bans/moratoriums on these kinds of aircraft and endanger the public.
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eh, I'm not really condoning what the pilot did. But I will tell you very sincerely that I would have enjoyed watching that up close. Even if it was illegal.
 
Okie_Pilot said:
1: Why is he a fool? If people weren't so airplane jittery and we knew the FAA wouldn't care at all if he did this, would he still be a fool? Is he a fool because his certificates are on the line, or in this case, already in the bin? Or do low-level flying and aerobatics make him a fool?
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Well, I would have continued to the other points, but he did intentionally bust LAX's class B airspace.

The FAA's going to call that "careless and wreckless" because you knowingly violated the airspace.

Add up the other violations and the wonderful "Threat & Error Matrix" the FAA has adds up to a full revocation.

I'll try to get a copy of that so we can take a closer look at it.

Pretty foolish.
 
Murdoughnut said:
How many of the guys supporting this Delta-Bravo do you think are even old enough to rent a car? That probably explains it more than anything :)
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I wonder if those defending this think it was cool that a couple of F-16s escorted Air Force One (which it wasn't at the time since the President wasn't on it) around the Statue of Liberty.

Hey, it's all good. Let's get some publicity shots of a gorgeous plane flying around an American landmark.
 
Wow, that video is unbelievable. I hope the FAA throws the book at him. I don't see how anybody can defend his actions from any angle. Did he really think he could so blatantly violate so many rules with no repercussion? This kind of recklessness cannot be tolerated from anyone.
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with flying low and doing aerobatics. I've done all those things in a cub and decathlon. I did NOT violate any airspace or endanger lives by doing anything illegal or unauthorized. If he had done these things with the L39 at an airshow I say more power to him. But he's not.

Okie you need to realize there is a difference between what this tool did and what many aerobatic pilots do on a daily basis. I am actually dumb-founded that your turning a discussion about how unsafe this guy is into one about him flying aerobatics. You need to refresh yourself on the regs and airspace if you think anything he did is ok.

I don't care if he has as much experience as Patty Wagstaff. He put lives in danger performing this stunt without authorization. That includes our fellow aviators who fly out of SMO, LAX and use the VFR corridor directly where he was flying. Aerobatic flying is based on planning, precision and technique. Not hot-dogging.

But you know it really doesn't matter what we think this guy is hosed either way. Anyone interested in buying an L39?
 
Doug Taylor said:
Add up the other violations and the wonderful "Threat & Error Matrix" the FAA has adds up to a full revocation.

I'll try to get a copy of that so we can take a closer look at it.
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I don't know that the Threat & Error Matrix is directly applicable for meeting-out corrective actions in individual cases. Buuuuut...

riskmatrix1.png


riskmatrix2.png


riskmatrix3.png


riskmatrix4.png

I suppose you can estimate if this guy's likely to do it again (probably not if he's grounded). In terms of risk, I'd say it meets the "Hazardous" conditions.

That said, this wasn't a statistical probability of something happening despite the best efforts of the system. This was a case of breaking laws intentionally.
 
3green said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with flying low and doing aerobatics. I've done all those things in a cub and decathlon. I did NOT violate any airspace or endanger lives by doing anything illegal or unauthorized. If he had done these things with the L39 at an airshow I say more power to him. But he's not.

Okie you need to realize there is a difference between what this tool did and what many aerobatic pilots do on a daily basis. I am actually dumb-founded that your turning a discussion about how unsafe this guy is into one about him flying aerobatics. You need to refresh yourself on the regs and airspace if you think anything he did is ok.

I don't care if he has as much experience as Patty Wagstaff. He put lives in danger performing this stunt without authorization. That includes our fellow aviators who fly out of SMO, LAX and use the VFR corridor directly where he was flying. Aerobatic flying is based on planning, precision and technique. Not hot-dogging.

But you know it really doesn't matter what we think this guy is hosed either way. Anyone interested in buying an L39?
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Ahh, thanks for bringing that back up. I overlooked the fact that he blatantly ignored the airspace rules and aerobatic rules. The guy is a major fool for doing that in the airspace. Last thing we need is someone inbound/outbound VFR/IFR whatever it may be because this guy wants to do vertical rolls in his L-39.

I was mainly expressing my opinion on other's detest and disgust for it seems like any type of low, fast, or unusual attitude flying they see.

I watched the video and in my opinion didn't see anything horrific. Once again, I overlooked the fact that he was breaking some pretty serious airspace rules. Then I read comments ranging from "take his license!" "throw the book at him!" and even one that said it would be cool if a pair of armed F/A-18's were nearby, I'm assuming to "blow him outta' the sky".

I don't know, lately it just seems to me that every time I catch a video of a fly-by, buzz, or low-level flying, a good majority of the people start using words such as "idiot, fool, irresponsible, stupid" and wanting his/her license to be revoked immediately to some that throw up the idea of burning them at the stake.
 
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