Buzzing of Santa Monica Pier raises safety questions

[Douglas]

You guys are kidding right?

Plan and simple it would be an awesome day for me at the beach to have a plane do that as I said and you quoted. Of course I would love to see it. Was he Legal, no but could it be, yes.

My previous post was not condoning breaking FARs.

I do believe that running and screaming is a bit much though.


-----
MikeD - There had to be half the people on top of the Empire State building that day that took home some awfully nice pictures.
Maybe not, otherwise they might have surfaced.

 

[subpilot]

I watched the video and in my opinion didn't see anything horrific. Once again, I overlooked the fact that he was breaking some pretty serious airspace rules. Then I read comments ranging from "take his license!" "throw the book at him!" and even one that said it would be cool if a pair of armed F/A-18's were nearby, I'm assuming to "blow him outta' the sky".

I think people made that comment because they are aware of where Santa Monica Pier is and the airspace around it. If this was in the middle of nowhere then it would be no problem.

 

[Rosstafari]

You guys are kidding right? The guy should be in jail. I would have called the FAA and reported him myself. These are the kind of irresponsible acts that increase our insurance, make more regs, get bans/moratoriums on these kinds of aircraft and endanger the public. I was in SMO just a few days ago. This airport has enough issues with the airport neighbors without a giant flying ego giving them more fodder. Too bad there weren't a couple of armed FA-18s nearby. THAT would have been You Tube worthy.

No, see, you don't understand. It's okay because he was in a really cool jet. If was some guy tooling along in his 172, that would've sucked, and then it should be illegal.

Same deal when I see some guy speed down a neighborhood street where kids are out playing all the time, going 45, 50 miles an hour. See, if he's driving a sexy car, OMG it's cool and I don't understand why people would complain when they're getting a FREE SHOW. And how do you know he's not trained to drive fast? What's to say he's not a NASCAR driver? Screw that crap, fast cars are awesome.

Reassuring to know that if you have a shiny, fast plane, in some people's mind, that makes it okay to disregard whatever FARs are inconvenient to you.

 

[Douglas]

Yeah, right on the money.

bingo

 

[NOGUFFCHET]

this is ridiculous. I can understand both sides of the coin, but after watching the video, and having towed banners for literally hundreds of hours as close as legally possible to the santa monica pier i feel its pretty clear that:

1. this was a stupid, dangerous thing to do, meaning he could have easily killed more than just himself.

2. if i was on the end of that pier when he blasted by, even with as much lust as i have for aviation, i cant say whether i would have cheered or soiled myself.

3. this guy is screwing EVERYONE in aviation with this.

4. he busted airspace, and it looks pretty conclusive that he flew through the centerline of the active departure(they are always a west flow, one runway) corridor from SMO, less than a mile from the numbers.

Ive flown banners for movies coming out, flown formation for them, watched dudes in camo hang out of helicopters over the beach just south of SMO to promote g.i. joe, seen a lot of bullcrap promoting a lot of other bullcrap, but it was safe, this was not.

yeah, this guy should be done flying; i mean, you can do anything once with the faa and your life, and it looks like this was a good time, so whats the big deal?

 

[woodreau]

This brings to mind another L-39 incident I overheard while in cruise on a center frequency about 3 years ago.

An Experimental 123AB checks on with center VFR at 17,500, asking for flight following to SGF. ZFW gives him a squwak code.

A few minutes later, center asks him to say altitude. He comes back with "I'm climbing VFR to 23,500 to stay clear of clouds."

Silence for a few seconds, controller asks him if he is instrument rated. His answer, "We have instruments on board."

The controller then proceeds to ask him if he's aware that to operate above 18,000 he has to be under IFR and asks him what type aircraft he is.

"I'm a AL-BEE-TROSS." I guess the controller wasn't familiar with it (I don't know why.) "Are you a jet?" "Military jet trainer, L-39, Albatross."

The rest of the conversation is the controller telling him to get down below 18,000 and some other words about regulations.

The conversation ended with, "Cancel flight following." The controller wasn't going to let him go though, "Let me know when you're ready to copy a phone number."

We figured it was probably some guy who had the money to buy an L-39, maybe he had a pilot certificate or maybe not, but he probably was the type that wouldn't be bothered with getting a pilot certificate if he didn't have one - he would be the one who wanted to play with his toy just because he could and he had the means to make it happen.

I'm pretty sure they tried to track him to his destination if he went nordo on them.

 

[granlistillo]

Okiepilot,
It wasn´t a free airshow... Airshows, and I mean everyone since Ramstein require that the flight path stays away from peeps. Try buzzing someone on the shores of Grand Lake up your way. See how long you keep your certificate. He broke alot of regs, and I think he should get busted criminally for multiple counts of reckless endangerment.

I googled this guy´s movie "Kerosene cowboy", and everything relating to this guy is pure cheese. He is the epitome of "that guy", and "that guy" is a blight on this profession and this hobby. Eventually these types typically rid the gene pool of their presence, but hopefully not taking out others in the process.

I really don´t understand why you guys are defending the dope

 

[Qgar]

Reading some of the posts on here are a microcosm of what's wrong with society today. Rules/regulations and laws are an annoyance to some and are meant for "other people." :whatever:

 

[Hacker15e]

I wonder if those defending this think it was cool that a couple of F-16s escorted Air Force One (which it wasn't at the time since the President wasn't on it) around the Statue of Liberty.

Hey, it's all good. Let's get some publicity shots of a gorgeous plane flying around an American landmark.

I actually think that was 100% fine...and the kneejerk reaction to it by New Yorkers (and the politicans' equally kneejerk reaction to it) was completely asinine.

 

[Murdoughnut]

I wonder if those defending this think it was cool that a couple of F-16s escorted Air Force One (which it wasn't at the time since the President wasn't on it) around the Statue of Liberty.

Hey, it's all good. Let's get some publicity shots of a gorgeous plane flying around an American landmark.

Eh, the Obama thing was stupid for sure, but they weren't purposely violating the regs or creating an unsafe environment. Although I blame the stupidity of people who couldn't identify Air Force One.

 

[granlistillo]

I actually think that was 100% fine...and the kneejerk reaction to it by New Yorkers (and the politicans' equally kneejerk reaction to it) was completely asinine.

Was it the SEC of the AF or COS that said it was poorly staffed and executed? Or both? We had this conversation, before and you seemed to think it was ok. Your bosses didn´t.

The event could have and should have been positive, but piss poor planning messed it up. :beer:

 

[Murdoughnut]

Was it the SEC of the AF or COS that said it was poorly staffed and executed? Or both? We had this conversation, before and you seemed to think it was ok. Your bosses didn´t.

The event could have and should have been positive, but piss poor planning messed it up. :beer:

Even if they had announced it in the news, don't you think some people would have still been freaking out?

 

[granlistillo]

Even if they had announced it in the news, don't you think some people would have still been freaking out?

Maybe, but they would be seen as foolish. The Air Force should have done it like Fleet Week (when the Navy invades New York harbor), maybe with a few passes by the Thunderbirds.

But hey, when you keep stuff from your first responders, you are asking for a panic.

 

[Hacker15e]

you seemed to think it was ok. Your bosses didn´t.

The bosses didn't *specifically because* of the public and political reaction to it.

If New Yorkers hadn't needlessly panicked, and the White House, NY Senator, and NY Mayor hadn't over-reacted, then it literally would have been a non-issue.

There are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of US military promo photos of aircraft flying over US landmarks. It is something that has been done probably since the beginning of US military aviation. It's been perfectly acceptable to do all of these years without getting permission from the White House, from the local area Senator, and the local Mayor.

The only thing that has changed is that the US public has become scared of anything in aviation that doesn't look like takeoff, cruise, and landing into a major airport.

"The Boss"....the guy who lives at 1600 Penn...decided to make an issue of this one to please the sheeple and the politicians in New York. And, as they say, "it" rolls downhill. In the AF, "it" tends to roll downhill regardless of if the mid-level leader actually believes in "it" or not. That is actually a good topic for another discussion (AF officership and how leadership is executed in the USAF), but the result is the massive kneejerk we saw after this photo flight.

You guys should see all of the special FCIFs that were sent out in the wake of this incident, all stating that *anything* out of the ordinary in terms of flying to be done in front of the public had to be "mother-may-I'd" to the highest levels.

Personally, I was looking forward to staffing the letter to Mayor Bloomberg stating I wanted to transit his airspace.

 

[granlistillo]

I see your point for sure, and yeah stuff rolls down hill. It was a debacle because it caused embarassment to the Big boss. But if you were to ask the COS if it was a good idea?? People got fired for this, specifically the WH aide that bought off on it. Personally, I think it was a horrible lapse of common sense, and that is the official line.

I am betting we will see all sorts of stuff roll down hill on Major Hasan´s case.

 

[mooneyguy]

You guys are kidding right? The guy should be in jail. I would have called the FAA and reported him myself. These are the kind of irresponsible acts that increase our insurance, make more regs, get bans/moratoriums on these kinds of aircraft and endanger the public. I was in SMO just a few days ago. This airport has enough issues with the airport neighbors without a giant flying ego giving them more fodder. Too bad there weren't a couple of armed FA-18s nearby. THAT would have been You Tube worthy.

The sad thing is pilots cannot take a dump anymore without the media looking to see if there is some big story they can break on it. We are under a microscope. People are getting violations these days for things that would not have even raised an eyebrow before the drive-by media cam along!

It's crazy there are people out there who will blatantly bust the regs, because they can. They are above the law. I worked with a guy who bought an airplane much faster then the one he did his flight training in. I flew with him a few times, the guy was careless, he was making bad decision I finally called him on it. I told him if he doesn't listen to me I would no longer fly with him! Before we could even reschedule another flight he crashed on landing with his family on-board! Luckily they where all ok! This guy was a successful business man who thought he could do whatever he wanted.

Probably not unlike this yahoo in the L39. It would be awesome to hop in a jet and go blast along at 50' over the beach at high speed. I'm sure it was a huge thrill. Common sense tells me no, can't do it.

We have to use some common sense out there today! As mush as I hate to be the one to say it, maybe we need to start policing our own. No one likes to be a snitch, but if there is someone who IS careless and reckless maybe if the FAA gets to them first it wont even get a chance to make the news!

Every time another one of these guys makes the news it makes it harder for us to do our job.

 

[MikeD]

That is actually a good topic for another discussion (AF officership and how leadership is executed in the USAF),

officership, or lack thereof anymore.

Oh man, don't even get me started on that........

 

[Okie_Pilot]

No, see, you don't understand. It's okay because he was in a really cool jet. If was some guy tooling along in his 172, that would've sucked, and then it should be illegal.

Same deal when I see some guy speed down a neighborhood street where kids are out playing all the time, going 45, 50 miles an hour. See, if he's driving a sexy car, OMG it's cool and I don't understand why people would complain when they're getting a FREE SHOW. And how do you know he's not trained to drive fast? What's to say he's not a NASCAR driver? Screw that crap, fast cars are awesome.

Reassuring to know that if you have a shiny, fast plane, in some people's mind, that makes it okay to disregard whatever FARs are inconvenient to you.

If it wasn't for the fact of him being in the airspace and the area that he was, pretending this video was on a lake away from any airways or major airports, yes I still think it was cool. No it doesn't have to be a shiny jet. I think flyby's of just about any airplane is cool, whether it be T-6's, T-28's, or Piper Cubs, I simply enjoy watching them.

Removing the fact of where he was and solely concentrating on his flying, for the fourth time of watching this video I still don't see anything that would require superior piloting skills such as of Tucker or Wagstaff to fly low to the ground. But then again, that's just me.

 

[JordanD]

Probably not unlike this yahoo in the L39. It would be awesome to hop in a jet and go blast along at 50' over the beach at high speed. I'm sure it was a huge thrill. Common sense tells me no, can't do it.

Even that would have been (somewhat) safer had it been out in the middle of the ocean or near some deserted island.

 

[JJink]

1: Why is he a fool? ......

He is a fool for endangering others lives.

Mistake #1: he chose a bad location..........if he is from Van Nuys then he should have known that you do not ever buzz the SMO peer.
Mistake #2: instead of paralleling the peer he flew towards it like strafing run scaring the hell out of the people.
Mistake #3: He pulled up straight into the departure path of KSMO busting that airspace and then continued climbing into the LAX class B airspace (from the video).
Mistake #4: He wanted to be a show off more than hone his stick and rudder skills.
Mistake #5: he exposed his airplanes profile and N number.
Mistake #6: He got busted (well deserved)

There are quite a few secret challenging "canyon beach runs" around the local coastline that can be used without endangering anybody but yourself if you think you got what it takes.

Yes, he is a fool and an amatuer.<O</O