As fifty cent said.....it ain't my fault

mrivc211 said:
I thought about how my pilot group just didn't get the picture. Then I thought, maybe its not that they don't get the picture, its just that they came to this airline with the mindset of not taking this profession seriously.
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I'm not ripping on SkyWest pilots here, because you see it at every regional. But when I flew home from NetworkJC and passed through SLC there was a SkyWest FO walking in front of me. Unpressed shirt, and he had a backpack strapped to his roller board and had running shoes hanging from his bag. Walking in front of the SkyWest FO was a DL Captain, and like you mentioned, hat, blazer, etc. I just thought it was a funny sight. When I was at Comair, they were really coming down on us for not wearing hats, full uniforms, etc. Chief Pilots would write you up, that's why we called them Hat Nazis;)

mrivc211 said:
Because of your attitude, your a hazard when you fly. You make a cockpit environment unsafe. The next time I fly with you, I'll ask nicely, then ask that you be removed.
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I just thought about this last night. Do you guys think the (very few) airlines hiring right now, hiring high-time pilots are creating unsafe cockpits? Yes, they do bring experience to the cockpit in terms of flying and knowledge, but what about their attitude? Pissed because they've been furloughed three times already, not making enough money to support their family, still on reserve, being an FO again, etc. I can see this at every airline right now, because of the stagnation, but if you've been flying at a major airline for 15 years and now you are back flying a 50 seat RJ for $20k/year. I'm not saying everyone has a bad attitude. A friend of mine, in his late twenties, a CA at a regional and his FO the other day... 50 years old, typed in several airplanes, furloughed from a major airline back to flying for $20k/year. To his surprise, his attitude of life and his job were amazing!
 
Oh, the majors get 'em too.

I was the second FO on a trip from JFK to FCO about a year ago and there was a guy on probation getting a TOE, which is basically an international "transoceanic" IOE.

I was pretty happy to be there. FCO is a pretty senior trip, the weather was going to be fabulous and we had a good crew with no drama.

Anyway, I go back to the cockpit when the TOE captain went on break and within the first five minutes:

...I can't believe I don't have weekends off next month...

...I only have 16 days off this month and over at (last airline), before I left, I had at least 18 days off...

...Commuting to JFK sucks, it's too hard to get up here from Florida...

...And how his girlfriend wasn't happy because he wasn't off all of the weekends...

Then I just had it.

I told him welcome to Southernjets but why in the WORLD would he apply to an airline with no pilot bases where he "expects" to live and not have to commute, then gave him a good chat about the balls that he had to bitch about flying a 767-300, over the Atlantic, to a very senior layover city, HOLDING A LINE where he could have stayed where he was and have been laying over in Baton Rouge on a reduced rest overnight.

It wasn't a generational thing because he was almost my age. I just think he was part of that era in time in aviation where people expected to hop out of flight school, straight into a regional captain's seat and expect all of the major airlines to immediately knock on his door, pleading for "His Airworthiness" to gild his name on an ever-growing seniority list.

This is a good profession, but you've got to DO THE WORK and enjoy doing the work. Part of that work is getting to your base, recurrent training, upgrade training, DOWNGRADE training, laying over where you don't want to layover, working when you expected to be off and missing a lot of holidays.
 
Don't worry Mrivc211, if we ever fly together you won't hear me biatching. I take responsibility for my actions. I'm not saying people who complain aren't trying to make it better. I think we all should be doing this. When I got into the airlines I was well aware of the low pay and the questionable work rules, but I also understood that if I didn't do it, someone else would. So, here I am. I want a better outlook and I will do what it takes to get there!
 
I've honestly never really understood the airline hat thing, as there's not alot of chance to wear it, IMO. Not in the jet obviously, not on the flightline obviously, not in the terminal or anywhere indoors (I would think, but that's where its mostly seen.....I was always taught no hat indoors unless armed/under arms), so having a hat as part of the uniforms just seems odd, as these are the places one would mostly be while in uniform.

That's just my 2 cents.
 
mrivc211 said:
I noticed EVERY DL pilot wearing FULL uniform. Hat, blazer, pressed, clean! No ipod, no sunglasses on their head, no wrinkled yellowish shirt sticking out. These guys were spot on. QUOTE]

But would they all look like that if Delta didn't have such a strict uniform policy? I would rather fly in shorts in the summer but my company enforces the policy on long pants....they do not enforce the hat policy so mine stays at home. I have seen pilots from the majors with ipods in, with nasty yellow shirts, with sunglasses on their head so don't make it sound like its just a regional thing. As fas as backpacks go, as long as it isnt on your back then its fine by me. Go take a stroll through the Fed Ex AOC almost all of those guys bring backpacks on their trips and not many of them wear a hat. Uniform rules and practices vary from one airline to the next
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I'm kind of old school.

Look sharp, fly sharp I think.

We've got a pretty strict uniform policy, but I knew that when I signed up for the job.
 
Doug Taylor said:
It wasn't a generational thing because he was almost my age. I just think he was part of that era in time in aviation where people expected to hop out of flight school, straight into a regional captain's seat and expect all of the major airlines to immediately knock on his door, pleading for "His Airworthiness" to gild his name on an ever-growing seniority list.
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Geezer.

Anyway, some great advice and reading on this thread for anyone trying to break into the game.

My first airline job was a 4 year or so upgrade with all the benefits of being a bottom-feeding company. That changed rapidly, so it was dumbluck.

Now I came to my 2nd job in aviation. There was no growth expected nor is there any anticipated. Luckily, I picked a place (and the one that liked me back too) that has work rules I can live with, even on the bottom of the list.

If things change, great!! If not, I'm still happy to be a bottom of the list gear slinger.

I guess it always amazes me what people "believe" in this industry. "Go to <insert airline du jour> because they pay mad money, and you never work. They own <insert perceived market segment>, and it won't ever go away" "Man, <airline> is hiring people into <insert jet> at <insert base at great place to live> and holding a line"

Many of those tips are like "hot stocks", by the time you hear about them, it's too late.
 
Evvvvvvverything is dynamic.

"I'm going to go to ____________ because they pay the most and they'll never furlough because they're in (choose one: market/geographical region/sector).

People believe that stuff man.

I see it every day in my inbox. "Sure (flight school) is hella money, but (airline) pays their captains $X so after a couple of years at (regional), I'll go to (major) and I'll pay it off and buy a boat."
 
mrivc211 said:
I. Oh and by the way, props are for boats.
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Hey! Easy there, you still some got prop in your blood too mister!! You were only adopted by the jet. :D


Every blue moon I fly with someone like you described. While I understand the frustration, if the whining is constant and we can't talk about anything else without the topic veering back to how bad life sucks, then my nerves are be shot by the end of the trip too.

Overall I have been very impressed with the attitudes of the F/O's I fly with. (Though the EMB F/O community here is much smaller than the CRJ's is.) Most of them are ready for a change after two or three years in the right seat, but they take it in stride and hope for the best.
 
ajf005 said:
mrivc211 said:
I noticed EVERY DL pilot wearing FULL uniform. Hat, blazer, pressed, clean! No ipod, no sunglasses on their head, no wrinkled yellowish shirt sticking out. These guys were spot on. QUOTE]

But would they all look like that if Delta didn't have such a strict uniform policy? I would rather fly in shorts in the summer but my company enforces the policy on long pants....they do not enforce the hat policy so mine stays at home. I have seen pilots from the majors with ipods in, with nasty yellow shirts, with sunglasses on their head so don't make it sound like its just a regional thing. As fas as backpacks go, as long as it isnt on your back then its fine by me. Go take a stroll through the Fed Ex AOC almost all of those guys bring backpacks on their trips and not many of them wear a hat. Uniform rules and practices vary from one airline to the next
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If I am flying mostly out of the public eye then dress codes are not such a major concern. That said the sharp looking uniform dress code that I see on Delta pilots, as an example, has really grown on me. I believe the general flying public has a lower perception of the airline profession then in times past. Looking sharp and well dressed ,IMO, is one way to help combat some of that perception.
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Doug Taylor said:
Evvvvvvverything is dynamic.

"I'm going to go to ____________ because they pay the most and they'll never furlough because they're in (choose one: market/geographical region/sector).

People believe that stuff man.

I see it every day in my inbox. "Sure (flight school) is hella money, but (airline) pays their captains $X so after a couple of years at (regional), I'll go to (major) and I'll pay it off and buy a boat."
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Newbies still think of the regionals as a stepping stone. You can tell them till you're blue in the face, that the chances now of them making it to a major are slim at best, but they'll think that they will be the ONE that defies the odds and makes it.

They are not willing to do what it takes for the regionals to get better pay and benefits because it might mean they lose flying and that means a longer upgrade and hence a longer wait to get to the majors.
 
mrivc211 said:
Because of your attitude, your a hazard when you fly. You make a cockpit environment unsafe. .
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maverickiceman.jpg
 
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