Why airline lay off the most junior staffs
- Thread starter jowong1
- Start date
subpilot
Squawking 7600
Does it make financial sense for the pilot and his family in his 30's,40's or 50's who has house payments, bills, probably children in school, etc to be furloughed just so the new guy who has been with the company the shortest amount of time and most likely is still young, single and living with roomates but either way has not put in the time yet can take his job?
Please do not try to go into management!!!
Please do not try to go into management!!!
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Thats just the thing-you're choosing to ignore what others have stated because it doesn't jive with what you think.
Think of it this way: If I have worked at a company for 20 years how much money have they invested in me?
If you have worked at the same company for 2 years how much money have they invested in you?
There is your financial sense. End of story.
tjvpa28
Well-Known Member
You keep saying discriminating, who is discriminating? No one said young people don't deserve the same opportunities, and companies don't furlough based on age, it's based on time at that company, which is very fair. Also, plenty of people have offered insight, you are just too shortsighted to see it. And someone with 20 years at a company IS entitled to more job security than someone with only 1 year. For the record I am 28 with just over a year at my flight school.
But I thought you said earlier you'd furlough more people for the same amount of money?
And what about what Doug suggested - about training people to fill the empty spots? If you furloughed from the top you'd lose a bunch of Captains and wide body pilots. You'd have to train FOs to be Captains and pay for transition training. When you furlough from the bottom you don't need to train anyone.
And I think you greatly overestimate the ability for the top to simply go find new jobs at the same level they were at.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Furloughs most of the time are based on numbers of pilots not money. Take my airline for example top or bottom they needed to furlough 71 pilots.
1) Contract
2) Cost more to furlough off the top.
We will use my airline to find the break even point.
Bottom 71 Cost
Monthly Pay: $180,997 (33 2nd year pay rate x 75 MMG x 71 Pilots on Furlough x 1.03 3% 401K match)
Training Cost: $2,840,000 (2 training cycles per a furlough x $20,000 cost of training)
Cost of a Recall: $1,420,000 (71 long term x $20,000)
Total Training Cost: $4,260,000
So the break even point is about 23.5 months for the bottom 71.
Top 71
Monthly Pay: $305,391 (98 mix of CRJ/145 max pay rate - 40 max FO's that now are going to be CA's x 72 MMG x 71 Pilots on Furlough x 1.03 3% 401K match)
Training Cost: $7,100,000 (5 training cycles per a furlough x $20,000 cost of training)
Cost of a Recall: $7,100,000 (5 training cycles per a recall x $20,000)
Total Training Cost: $14,200,000
So the break even point is about 46.5 months for the top 71.
CirrusMonkey
No Real Usefulness
lostplanetairman
Well-Known Member
Furloughs by seniority don't always protect those protected by law.
My first furlough was at age 42; my second was at age 49.
And, according to my wife, ADEA can be superceded by states. So, for example, she says in the great state of NJ, the NJLAD covers all employees over the age of 18. And she says not to forget about the OWBPA. Alphabet soup to me--but that's her field.
My first furlough was at age 42; my second was at age 49.
And, according to my wife, ADEA can be superceded by states. So, for example, she says in the great state of NJ, the NJLAD covers all employees over the age of 18. And she says not to forget about the OWBPA. Alphabet soup to me--but that's her field.
Excuse me, is this seat taken? Thanksop:
Is this seat next to you taken?? Thank you.
opcorn:Is this conversation really happening?
One open widebody captain position going vacant at Southernjets results in something like 20 training events.
Open ATL 777 spot <-767-400 captain bids the position <-MD-88 captain bids the 767-400 <- senior 767 FO bids MD-88 captain <- 737 FO takes the 767 FO's spot <- MD-88FO bids the 737 FO's spot.... yadda yadda yadda
I think we've more than answered the question in terms of the way the seniority system works, why the seniority system works the way it does, I largely consider the question answered. I think we've done everything short of praying for Jesus Christ (or Yahweh for my homie Gonzo) showing up to opine on the issue.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Because paying for training any crewmembers is an arduous and expensive process. Training is also no guarantee that the applicant will be a successful crewmember. Plus you could have a crewmember that gets the type rating, stays at the job for a year, then quits for an awesome contract gig that he needed the type for. Now you're out one crewmember. All of the people with high seniority numbers are known-quantities in the eyes of management, these people have a lot of time and energy invested in their career and aren't likely to go somewhere just to go somewhere. A newer employee is.
Tack on the cost of insurance in the 135 world (I don't know how insurance works in 121). One of my bosses has somewhere around 5000hrs in PA32s, I'd bet my paycheck he's less expensive to insure than me with my 600hrs in PA32s.
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
About this post or any thing else you have posted. Are you John Ornstein teasing us???
esa17
Well-Known Member
I blame internet shorthand.
DonAlejandro
Well-Known Member
Buzzard (Webster's Dictionary)
Main Entry: buz·zard
Pronunciation: \ˈbə-zərd\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English busard, from Old French, alteration of buison, from Latin buteon, buteo hawk
Date: 14th century
1 chiefly British : buteo
2 : any of various usually large birds of prey (as the turkey vulture)
3 : a contemptible or rapacious person
Ethan, ur a bird amigo haha
Actually it looks like airline management is his calling. He would be promoted the first week.