Hypoxic Kalitta Crew audio

Hacker15e said:
That's exactly how hypoxia works.

The training that the military (and the FAA) conducts is how to recognize your specific, personal symptoms of hypoxia.

Those symptoms are often very insidious and differ from person to person.
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And as is preached to us during any pressurization problems or smoke/fumes, take care of yourself first, then take care of the plane.
 
"Place the mask onto your face, before helping others..."

Because if you try to help others first, you wont be able to help yourself.

As soon as the annunciator goes off in the Saab, its gas mask on, establish communication. Spin the altitude selector up 100 feet, and then select a decent. You do this because if you select 100 feet lower, it will level off 100 feet lower. It will take way too long to select an altitude 10,000 lower.

Although in the Saab the highest we normally go is 17,000, and thats rare. So a hypoxia issue like this probably wont happen.
 
I had to put the O2 mask on at 11,000 feet once because we wouldn't pressurize in the Dash, it felt kind of stupid as I had been higher than that in a Seminole and I sounded like Darth Vader... but thats what the memory item said to do.

I think "establish communication" (which is also our #2 item) is a little more difficult to do than you would think!
 
I remember during my cross countries at ATP, we would routinely fly 2, 3 hour legs around California between 12 and 13k. The MEAs wouldnt let us go any lower. I remember after those flights I was damn tired, and all I did was sit there and monitor the radios!

After the cross country phase you start on your commercial, which is where you start to learn about hypoxia. It was then that I realized why I felt so tired.
 
v1valarob said:
As soon as the annunciator goes off in the Saab, its gas mask on, establish communication. Spin the altitude selector up 100 feet, and then select a decent. You do this because if you select 100 feet lower, it will level off 100 feet lower. It will take way too long to select an altitude 10,000 lower.
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Why not just use that funny-shaped thing that is sitting between your knees to select the altitude you want to go to?
 
I don't know how true it is but my AME last time that I went in for my medical he and I were talking about WWII bomber crews and how they used to use maneuvers similar to G-straining to allow for less O2 usage. So they would breathe in, flex the abdomen, and hold the air in. Then repeat. He said that if you did this while you were flying after losing pressure then you would definitely have more useful conscious time. Anyone know how truthful that is?

SIDENOTE: I always love those charts, that same AME also said that you should cut those times in half for a normal pilot (Civilian World) because usually the pilot is out of shape and if they smoke....yeah.
 
braunpilot said:
I don't know how true it is but my AME last time that I went in for my medical he and I were talking about WWII bomber crews and how they used to use maneuvers similar to G-straining to allow for less O2 usage. So they would breathe in, flex the abdomen, and hold the air in. Then repeat. He said that if you did this while you were flying after losing pressure then you would definitely have more useful conscious time. Anyone know how truthful that is?
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Sounds bogus to me. A couple things in no particular order.

1) WWII bombers, with the exception of the B-29, weren't pressurized. Nor were the fighters.

2) It's true that you don't come close to using all the oxygen in your lungs with each breath...and you can hold your breath for a while if there is good oxygen content when you breathe in. If you are breathing air with significantly less oxygen content (like up at altitude or after loss of your O2 system), it wouldn't work nearly as well -- or at all.

3) The muscle flexing in the G-strain maneuver actually causes *more* oxygen to be used by your muscles than if you were simply relaxed. The muscle tensing increases blood pressure, but has a nasty byproduct called "air hunger" that makes you want to breathe more frequently.

4) If this were really a viable option in the case of a rapid decompression, then why would they spend so much time, effort, and money for training on systems like quick-don masks if all you had to do for a couple minutes was flex? The military training in the altitude chamber is very in-depth, and goes into many effects of hypoxia and rapid decompressions, as well as how to stay alive if you experience it. I have to believe that if this were a viable option, it would have been mentioned at least once...and I've never heard of it outside of your post.
 
Hacker15e said:
Why not just use that funny-shaped thing that is sitting between your knees to select the altitude you want to go to?
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When I'm hypoxic? Really? And either way Im just telling you what we are trained to do. If I select 100' higher and then roll the VSI down for a second it will probably select around 400fpm, so no matter what we are going down. For all I know while hypoxic I might think Im pitching down, but really Im doing nothing, or Im pitching up.
 
v1valarob said:
When I'm hypoxic? Really? And either way Im just telling you what we are trained to do. If I select 100' higher and then roll the VSI down for a second it will probably select around 400fpm, so no matter what we are going down. For all I know while hypoxic I might think Im pitching down, but really Im doing nothing, or Im pitching up.
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Got it...but what I was asking was why you would be trained to do that rather than simply manipulating the yoke to maneuver the airplane to a lower altitude?

If the logic is that your decisionmaking, cognition, and fine motor skills while hypoxic will be so impaired that you would not be able to move the flight controls to get to a lower altitude, then I don't understand what makes that any worse (or more difficult) than having to manipulate a knob and read the result on a dial in order to get the airplane to descend.

If you are so impaired that you don't know if you're climbing or diving, then how would you have the cognitive ability to set a climb or descent on an autopilot anyway?

When you have hypoxia, your fine motor skills and your ability to read and interpret instruments are some of the first things to go. Moving a yoke, especially in a binary way (like 'push forward to descend') is closer to being a gross motor skill than a fine one at that point.

Not criticizing, but just trying to understand why your organization trains that way as it didn't (and doesn't) make sense to me.
 
U-Dog said:
I just took the FAA sponsored 2 day Aviation Physiology and Survival Training Course at CAMI in Oklahoma City.

It included spatial disorientation, basic survival, land/water egress and hypoxia training.

The hypoxia session was really interesting and included a high altitude chamber 'ride' where you experienced the effects of hypoxia at 25,000' for 5 minutes. I highly recommend it.

The course was very educational, well put together and taught by excellent instructors. Very worthwhile!!! (Did I just made a postive comment about the FAA??? :D)

And the best part was that it was FREE and I get a discount on my insurance!!!

U-Dog
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we have to do that too, just done by the AF instead
 
I just wish I lived closer to one of the options out there. I would love to do an altitude chamber so that I could see what I was like while hypoxic.
 
braunpilot said:
I just wish I lived closer to one of the options out there. I would love to do an altitude chamber so that I could see what I was like while hypoxic.
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I've always wanted to do it too. Does the FAA let anybody go to theirs?

On a side note, I know it's serious and still scares me, but am I the only one who thought he sounded like Special Ed from Crank Yankers? :confused:
 
Anyone who flys above 10,000' needs to go to the altitude chamber!

I've been 3 times in my Navy career and it was always an eye-opener...

Hypoxia is insidious for most people, and it kills.

The training is priceless because it demonstrates what hypoxia feels like to you and how you react to it; that "awareness" of what it feels like as the onset occurs could save your life.

Not all decompressions are "explosive!"

Think "Payne Stewart et.al."


Kevin
 
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