ALPA Requests Election to Represent ATI Pilots

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

ALPA Requests Election to Represent ATI Pilots

On September 10, ALPA petitioned the National Mediation Board (NMB) for a representation election on behalf of the crewmembers of Air Transport International (ATI).

“We are impressed by the overwhelming majority of ATI crewmembers signing cards in favor of ALPA representation, and the dedication shown by their organizing committee,” said Capt. John Prater, president of ALPA. “We hope that the NMB election will result in a win for both ALPA and the ATI crewmembers. We will work hard to ensure our new members have the tools to become active, successful participants in our union after the election.”

A recent ATI Crewmembers for ALPA letter noted, “We believe it’s time to act to protect our careers and our contract. . . . We have determined that the IBT no longer has our best interests in mind, nor the tools to act on our interests even if they wanted to. We believe that the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l, would be able to provide superior representation and other benefits, and we are asking you to join us in our efforts to make ALPA our representative.”

“The Capital Cargo crewmembers look forward to welcoming our brothers and sisters at ATI into ALPA,” said Capt. Andrew Forsythe, Capital Cargo MEC chairman. “We already share the same parent company and work for the same customer. It is now time to share the same union. Both crewmember groups are approaching the endgame of contract negotiations, and having both represented by the strongest, largest pilot union in the world only makes the two more solid and united.”

Both ATI and Capital Cargo are owned by ATSG (Air Transport Services Group). We anticipate that the NMB will announce dates for an election in approximately 30 days.

The 171 crewmembers of ATI fly Boeing 767 and McDonnell Douglas DC-8 aircraft for passenger, military, and cargo operations around the world.

 

[surreal1221]

Interesting. ATI's not currently represented?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Interesting. ATI's not currently represented?

They're IBT. ALPA is finally doing what I've been telling the honchos in Herndon to do for several years: raid the Teamsters properties until they're left with no one. Time to put an end to truckers representing pilots.

 

[surreal1221]

You're asking for Drama. lolcat.

But, two airlines, one holding company, same union. . .DO EET! GET IN DA CHOPPA!

 

[MikeD]

They're IBT. ALPA is finally doing what I've been telling the honchos in Herndon to do for several years: raid the Teamsters properties until they're left with no one. Time to put an end to truckers representing pilots.

A dangerous game to play. First, there's all the "we're with you, union brothers standing beside each other" sentiment with the IBT pilots at Amerijet. Now, the desire to slash and burn an IBT shop at another carrier, in this case ATI? The union brother you backstab today, will be the one not standing with you tomorrow when you need them. I see your point on the truckers representing pilots, but wording it as "raid the teamsters properties until they're left with no one" isn't going to make any friends; and will only further the notion that "brotherhood" and "unity" in unions, truly only exists within the bounds of one's own union "family".

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Mike, a lot of this started when the IBT left the AFL-CIO, still owing millions of dollars in back dues. They abandoned their union brothers and sisters. And then, to top it off, the IBT starts raiding other union properties, something they weren't allowed to do as an AFL-CIO member. They started a union raid war, so ALPA certainly shouldn't sit back and allow Dave Bourne to raid our properties and tear our union apart. ALL air line pilots need to be represented by THE pilots union: ALPA.

 

[MikeD]

Mike, a lot of this started when the IBT left the AFL-CIO, still owing millions of dollars in back dues. They abandoned their union brothers and sisters. And then, to top it off, the IBT starts raiding other union properties, something they weren't allowed to do as an AFL-CIO member. They started a union raid war, so ALPA certainly shouldn't sit back and allow Dave Bourne to raid our properties and tear our union apart. ALL air line pilots need to be represented by THE pilots union: ALPA.

Ahhhh, I didn't know that. More to the story then. I wasn't aware this was an ongoing battle. In that case, strike my earlier comments. I realize too that the support of the Amerijet strikers was truly support of the pilots themselves, than it was support of the IBT; which is understandable given the history of the two union organization's relations, as described.

 

[Polar742]

You're asking for Drama. lolcat.

But, two airlines, one holding company, same union. . .DO EET! GET IN DA CHOPPA!

Uh 3 there slick.

ABX
ATI and
Cappy

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I realize too that the support of the Amerijet strikers was truly support of the pilots themselves, than it was support of the IBT

Exactly! Nothing against any IBT member, who are all fellow union pilots. It's their organization that's the problem.

 

[727to7400]

Ahhhh, I didn't know that. More to the story then. I wasn't aware this was an ongoing battle. In that case, strike my earlier comments. I realize too that the support of the Amerijet strikers was truly support of the pilots themselves, than it was support of the IBT; which is understandable given the history of the two union organization's relations, as described.

Mike:

You're right, there's a lot more to the story that ol' Toddster forgot yet again. Here's the $64,000.00 question:

The union leader at ATI that is behind the decert is the same guy who actively fought to keep Gene Sowell in control of Local 747 after he was removed in April for malfeasance that was proven beyond a shadow of doubt. Stuff that he (the ATI) knew about and said nothing, costing his members money from their pockets.

Joe Hete, the owner of ABX is helping fund the decertification drive. The same Joe Hete who just put management scabs on Amerijet's property when his pilots refused to cross the picket line. The same Joe Hete who wants to use ATI and their contract to bust his own pilots and gut their contract.

Enter ALPA and Prater. Who is now joining in and WORKING with a management group, ATSG (who owns Capitol, ATI and ABX) to whipsaw pilot groups to gut their contracts and get cheaper pilots, hurting us all.

We have Dave Bourne. Who just stood up to Dave Bassett at Amerijet and got them a contract with what they asked for and a bit more. Who told ATI's union leadership (Sowell's buddy) that he would not sign a contract that gutted their rights and allowed them to be used to whipsaw another pilot group.

And now we have ATN. Who hasn't produced squat for his guys at AirTran, but seems to have the history of airlines and airline labor at his disposal.

ATN can't understand the fact that the Airline Division is run by an AIRLINE PILOT. So he uses terms like "truck driver." Why tell the truth when a lie sounds so much better?:dunno:

And for what POSSIBLE REASON on this planet is he supporting his union President who is now on the record as actively engaged in the whipsawing of two pilot groups??

So yeah Mike, there's a lot more to the story. I'm betting the ATN pilots would like to know when their MEC is going to get busy for them.

Better be soon. If the rumors of SWA buying them are true, ALPA merger policy won't mean and they'll be stapled to the bottom like SWA was going to do to Frontier.

 

[wheelsup]

I thought ALPA was an association, not a union.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Insert string of rumors, lies, and half-truths....

John, you have a horrible habit of just making up whatever lies it takes to justify the actions of your best buddy Bourne and your beloved truckers' union. Your allegations are outlandish, to say the least. That seems to be a pattern with you, however.

I thought ALPA was an association, not a union.

Wrong.

 

[727to7400]

Gee, must have missed something here. The Airline Division is headed by an airline pilot. They operate under the RLA. I'm sorry, somewhere we missed "truckers." ALPA's senior negotiators came from various places and unions and none of them are airline pilots.

So I guess they'll keep yelling "truck drivers!" because they can't yell anything else. Guess "truck drivers" are sub human to some pilots.

Damn good thing that pilots don't move freight like those "truck drivers." Or passengers like those "bus drivers."

Or do they????

I guess the real question is if pilots want to have a legal bargaining agent who can reach out and bring all kinds of support when they go on strike and get them what they asked for; or do they want a bargaining agent that treats their own unionized employees the way airline management treats pilots, by imposing contracts and firing union employees in violation of their contract. And then has to hire them back because they were found to have broken the law in doing it.

Funny, I remember when regionals weren't welcome at ALPA...a lot of folks don't want them now. Same with cargo and smaller jet carriers deemed "not worthy." So they found a home elsewhere and now, low and behold, IBT is "raiding." Funny how that happens, yet a member of ALPA's own BOD says publicly:

"raid the teamsters properties until they're left with no one"

So how long have you held this feeling? Since you joined ALPA or since you first heard it from Bruce?

See folks, this is the root problem with ACL's twisted argument. If you're not an ALPA member paying dues, you're a second class citizen. And even if you are, when you go on strike, don't expect your fellow ALPA carriers to honor your picket line. The IBT has this crazy assed idea that if you go on strike, everyone should support you and help you get a better contract.

It's called "trade unionism." Something IPA, APA, SWAPA, USAPA and others "get."

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Mike, a lot of this started when the IBT left the AFL-CIO, still owing millions of dollars in back dues. They abandoned their union brothers and sisters. And then, to top it off, the IBT starts raiding other union properties, something they weren't allowed to do as an AFL-CIO member. They started a union raid war, so ALPA certainly shouldn't sit back and allow Dave Bourne to raid our properties and tear our union apart. ALL air line pilots need to be represented by THE pilots union: ALPA.

...and then...and then they called us names and pulled our hair. It hurt really bad. It made me sad.

Sounds like high school clique bs. I'm not paying union dues for my union to conquer the world. I want them to represent the best interests of the pilots at MY company.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

So the head of the airline division is the last and final word on what happens in the airlines represented by IBT? I didn't think so.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Gee, must have missed something here. The Airline Division is headed by an airline pilot. They operate under the RLA. I'm sorry, somewhere we missed "truckers." ALPA's senior negotiators came from various places and unions and none of them are airline pilots.

I don't want pilots negotiating for me by themselves, I want professional negotiators assisting them, which is exactly what attorneys like Bruce York and Jim Wilson are. I'll take them before that turncoat former Midwest pilot any day of the week.

So I guess they'll keep yelling "truck drivers!" because they can't yell anything else. Guess "truck drivers" are sub human to some pilots.

I've got nothing against truck drivers. Hell, I'll walk a picket line with them to show support. But it'll be a cold day in hell before I let them represent me as an air line pilot. They just don't have a clue what my job is like.

Funny, I remember when regionals weren't welcome at ALPA...a lot of folks don't want them now. Same with cargo and smaller jet carriers deemed "not worthy." So they found a home elsewhere and now, low and behold, IBT is "raiding." Funny how that happens, yet a member of ALPA's own BOD says publicly:

"raid the teamsters properties until they're left with no one"

I'm not a member of the ALPA BOD.

So how long have you held this feeling? Since you joined ALPA or since you first heard it from Bruce?

I can assure you that Bruce is far less aggressive than me on this sort of topic.

It's called "trade unionism." Something IPA, APA, SWAPA, USAPA and others "get."

When you throw USAPA in there, you lose all credibility. Actually, nevermind; you didn't have any credibility to start with.

I'm not paying union dues for my union to conquer the world. I want them to represent the best interests of the pilots at MY company.

You can only have the best representation when ALPA has the most leverage, which means they need to represent ALL pilots. ALPA already has a great deal of influence in DC, but to truly have power, we need to be able to say that we represent everyone that flies an airliner for a living. It's in your best interest.

So the head of the airline division is the last and final word on what happens in the airlines represented by IBT? I didn't think so.

You're absolutely right. Good 'ole Jimmy Hoffa Jr. has the final say over everything in the IBT. Hell, he probably hasn't even driven himself in a car in 20 years, let alone driven a truck. Just a spoiled politician that doesn't have a clue what trade unionism is really all about.

 

[jhugz]

Dead honest question ATN. Put everything else behind aside and please answer this question without any snide remarks or FA comments. Why is one to believe that ALPA is the be all end all when some good looking contracts negioated recently (aka JetBlue, WN) and others already in place, while some ALPA careers have some serious problems with the recent contracts?

Disclaimer: This is a honest question looking for an honest answer, so please educate me w/ no bias.

 

[derg]

Only if you actually listen to the answer, even if it's not consistent with your preconception.

 

[jhugz]

Only if you actually listen to the answer, even if it's not consistent with your preconception.

I will listen, and if it is true backed up with facts my opinion will more then likely change. I just have not seen one post that does that.

 

[derg]

For background, have you read "Flying the Line"? and if not, PM me your address and I'll send you a free copy. It wasn't what I really wanted to hear when I was a CFI like yourself, but it helped bridge my understanding of the industry I was about to dive head first into.