Can you act as PIC at night if you're not night current?

SJM

New Member
Can you act as safety pilot at night if you are day current, but haven't done your night landings to be night current?
 
Yes, without providing any regs, you're allowed to act as PIC so long as you're not carrying any passengers. Your hood guy is not a passenger, he's a "required crewmember."
 
All you really need is to be qualified in category and class. As far as I know, currency is not an issue. Can't remeber the exact reg but it's in there somewhere. :)
 
Here's a related question: can a pilot who is not night current to carry passengers act as PIC at night with another pilot (non-CFI, not a required crewmember) aboard?
 
Here's a related question: can a pilot who is not night current to carry passengers act as PIC at night with another pilot (non-CFI, not a required crewmember) aboard?

I would suspect the answer is no. If they're not an instructor or a required crewmember, the only other thing they could be is a passenger.
 
Here's a related question: can a pilot who is not night current to carry passengers act as PIC at night with another pilot (non-CFI, not a required crewmember) aboard?
No. However, he may be sole manipulator of the controls, and make 3 T.O.'s & Lndgs, which also allows logging PIC, but he may not act as PIC. His night current pilot buddy is acting PIC.
 
Can you act as safety pilot at night if you are day current, but haven't done your night landings to be night current?
Yes, so long as you (the safety pilot) are not acting as PIC and the flying pilot (who is acting as PIC) is night current.

If neither are current, no, no matter which you want to say is PIC.

Want the flying pilot to act as PIC? The safety pilot is only a required crewmember want the PIC is under the hood; the rest of the time he's a passenger.

Want the safety pilot to act as PIC? Then, despite flying the airplane and being able to log the time as PIC, the flying pilot is not a required crewmember. To test this out - if your friend lost his medical, can you take him up and let him practice instrument work under the hood? Of course you can. But if he was a required crewmember, he'd need a current medical.
 
No. However, he may be sole manipulator of the controls, and make 3 T.O.'s & Lndgs, which also allows logging PIC, but he may not act as PIC. His night current pilot buddy is acting PIC.
Agreed. a pilot who is not a required crewmember (or instructor) is just a passenger.

It's only the pilot who is =acting= as PIC who needs to be landing current.

Two pilots, one current, one not, go up and fly.

Paul PIC, the current pilot, is the pilot in command of the flight with duty, authority and responsibility. Paul allows his friend, Ned Notcurrent, to fly the airplane and perform the landings.

Ned gets to log the landings for currency and may even write the "sole manipulator" time as PIC in his logbook later when sitting at home with a beer in his hand. But even with all that, Ned is really just a passenger.
 
Yes, without providing any regs, you're allowed to act as PIC so long as you're not carrying any passengers. Your hood guy is not a passenger, he's a "required crewmember."
Disagree. If the right seater is going to act as PIC then the left seater would qualify as a 'required crew member' only during that time when the left seater was under the hood. Therefore unless the left seater does the takeoff, landing and taxi under the hood, they are a pax during those portions of the flight even if they are sole manipulator. If the right seater isn't current for carrying pax at night, then the right seater can't act as PIC while serving as safety pilot at night.

Who will act as PIC is generally decided before the flight and I've never seen a letter of opinion stating that the role of acting PIC can be changed during the flight, i.e. you are the acting PIC for takeoff and landing, I am the acting PIC while you're under the hood. Lacking an official letter of opinion stating you can do it, I wouldn't do it. It's the sort of thing that will make a bad day worse if the FAA ever looks at your logbook with an eye toward hanging you and its too easy to avoid. Either don't log it as PIC or go up solo before the flight and log three quick full stops.
 
FAR 61.57 (a)(1) through (e) cover night currency and 91.109 (b) covers safety pilot

(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—
(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.
(2) The safety pilot has adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft, or a competent observer in the aircraft adequately supplements the vision of the safety pilot; and
(3) Except in the case of lighter-than-air aircraft, that aircraft is equipped with fully functioning dual controls. However, simulated instrument flight may be conducted in a single-engine airplane, equipped with a single, functioning, throwover control wheel, in place of fixed, dual controls of the elevator and ailerons, when—
(i) The safety pilot has determined that the flight can be conducted safely; and
(ii) The person manipulating the controls has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.


It doesn't say you can't under part 91, but if you're not night current you can't act as PIC under part 61. I'd get night current first if I were you.
 
YES

From 61.57....no person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers during the period beginning 1 hour after sunset and ending 1 hour before sunrise...

Night begins at the end of evening civil twilight....at that time you can log night time. The end of evening civil twilight, as published in the American Air Almanac, occurs prior to one hour after sunset. So you can carry passengers up to but not including one hour after sunset and be able to log a little bit of night, though the landing would not count toward night currency. I guess you can call this a loophole.
 
Agreed. a pilot who is not a required crewmember (or instructor) is just a passenger.

It's only the pilot who is =acting= as PIC who needs to be landing current.

Two pilots, one current, one not, go up and fly.

Paul PIC, the current pilot, is the pilot in command of the flight with duty, authority and responsibility. Paul allows his friend, Ned Notcurrent, to fly the airplane and perform the landings.

Ned gets to log the landings for currency and may even write the "sole manipulator" time as PIC in his logbook later when sitting at home with a beer in his hand. But even with all that, Ned is really just a passenger.
This implies that Paul could also log it as PIC. Somehow, I think the FAA would object to this.
 
Why wouldn't the guy who is THE PIC for the flight not be able to log it as such?
Beacause 61.51 sets out all of the rules of logging flight time and you won't find a "box" that this fits in.

Take a look. As I recall, there are only 2 situations in which 61.51 uses "acting as PIC" as a basis for logging PIC - acting as PIC on a flight that requires more than one pilot and an ATP acting as PIC on a flight that requires an ATP - and neither apply to the scenario being discussed. If "acting as PIC" were enough for logging it, those two sub-paragraphs would not even need to be there.

Logging PIC is an artificial construct created by the FAA for the purpose of counting time toward certificates, ratings and currency. It's not related to acting as PIC and it doesn't have to be. For reasons lost iin the mists of history, what the FAA chooses to count may or may not be related to what we think should count and not count. As soon as you start asking "Why wouldn't the guy who is THE PIC for the flight not be able to log it as such" you are on the wrong track to understanding the reg.
 
How about this one: can you log PIC (as safety) in a complex if you aren't complex endorsed?
 
How about this one: can you log PIC (as safety) in a complex if you aren't complex endorsed?


Negative and there are numerous threads on this instance.

Because in order to log PIC under your scenario you must also be Acting PIC because of the whole required crew member deal.

To Act as PIC you need those endorsements.

However you could log it as SIC
 
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