Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordings

[Orange Anchor]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

How about limiting it to those of us who not only work and fly for a major part 121 carrier, but also have years of experience in safety work and major accident investigations?

I like that. "...those of us..." Maybe a 5th stripe on the sleeve is also warranted. Maybe even go for a sychophant with a megaphone to announce, "THUS SAYETH..." prior to such weighty insights.

(sometimes I wish I had one...)

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

Hmmm apparantly discussing "icing conditions" under 10,000 feet is breaking sterile cockpit???

 

[derg]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

Hmmm apparantly discussing "icing conditions" under 10,000 feet is breaking sterile cockpit???

It didn't. But keep in mind were drawing a picture from bits and pieces of misreporting and unnamed "sources".

Remember the same people that thought Enron was hunky dory are probably assigned to this event as well.

I'm pretty much taking everything with a grain of salt until the conclusion of the investigation.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

It didn't. But keep in mind were drawing a picture from bits and pieces of misreporting and unnamed "sources".

Remember the same people that thought Enron was hunky dory are probably assigned to this event as well.

I'm pretty much taking everything with a grain of salt until the conclusion of the investigation.

I know... take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[Qgar]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

I don't see it on my 3 c-span channels. Anybody watching it now?

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

http://www.capitolconnection.gmu.edu/ntsb/live/ntsblive-cc.htm
or

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream4&iref=lb100

 

[Malko]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

I don't see it on my 3 c-span channels. Anybody watching it now?

http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/hearing_sched.htm#

webcast

 

[Qgar]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

thanks guys! I'm watching it now...

 

[Malko]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

thanks guys! I'm watching it now...

the ntsb link is showing the powerpoint presentation slides as the speaker talks over them. The cnn link is just showing the speaker...

 

[Qgar]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

I'm watching the ntsb link.

 

[sorrygottarunway]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

the NTSB link shows the powerpoint slides, if you can read them.

Remember this will be ongoing for several days, so they are going very in depth about everything.

 

[Roger, Roger]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

NTSB link's not working for me.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

Thanks CNN.... thanks for being sensational:

Screams recorded in cockpit of crashing plane

Oh and there's a video about how he wasn't trained in the "stick pusher".... they got some sidestick aircraft and pushed on the non-visible stick to imitate the stick pusher. Gawd.

 

[pullup]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

From the CVR:


FO:

I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like​

seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

From the CVR:


FO:

I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like​

seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.

I'm not surprised....

Personal experiences may vary. Until flying 121, I had never landed on a contaminated runway (snow). I'd seen ice on an airplane before, but not in a situation, much like we do every day, where we just keep going, with the anti-ice on... Crosswinds..... hadn't seen a bunch of those or at the speeds that we can have them at. Also never flown anywhere near thunderstorms, rainshowers, etc. And I thought I got fairly decent IFR experience in the SoCal murk.... unlike friends that had no cloud time flying in Prescott.

 

[zmiller4]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

From the CVR:


FO:

I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like​

seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.

I'm not sure they interpreted that part correctly...it sounds like she said or meant "I had never" or "I'd never". They make it sound like she still hadn't seen winter flying.

 

[E_Dawg]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

Yeah this accident was just a few months ago, I'm sure she had seen plenty of wintry conditions in the northeast at that point.

Besides just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean you can't deal with it. I don't think Sully was seaplane qualified but he did alright.

 

[E_Dawg]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

I sleep fine at night. Her experience as a FA has almost zero relevance when comparing it to pilots. Just felt like pointing that out.

How's the furlough?

Dude, seriously?

 

[surreal1221]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

Dude, seriously?

It appears so. Quite amazing.

I sleep fine at night. Her experience as a FA has almost zero relevance when comparing it to pilots. Just felt like pointing that out.

How's the furlough?

Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it. I hold Amber's opinion about training standards in the aviation industry just a little higher than yours. The way your first couple posts came across it was as if her opinion didn't matter - not as you say now - that her experience has zero relevance when compared to pilots. That in and of itself is highly debatable. A crew environment is a crew environment no matter how you slice it. I know many pilots who like to consider the FA(s) as "other," but in reality they are just as qualified and should hold the same amount of respect as another pilot when it comes to operational decision making. We only deal with so much, while they deal with the whole back of the ship.

As far as the furlough, what furlough? I'm happily employed in another industry. I'm actually quite happy I was furloughed, as much as I miss flying, I'm glad the decision was finally made so I didn't have to keep dealing with the associated stress of knowing when I could start at a new position. You know how that feels - right? No?

How's your job? Anything else you'd like to rub in my face - perhaps something else you have no frame of reference on?

 

[FlyChicaga]

Re: Buffalo Crash Sparks Debate Over Use of Cockpit Recordin

I wish I had a computer to type out the response I have in my head, but I do want to ask: Has Colgan management considered a LOSA? (Line Oriented Safety Audit.) I'm surprised they jumped immediately on the CVR. The fact there are other ways of gathering the information they want, but instead going after the CVR, leaves me suspicious.