Civil Air Patrol...what I have learned so far

Joe Gremlin said:
It's never been done, that's what. It appears to go against nature. It's like saying whats so hard about stopping a tornado. Its something thats never happened and probably never will.
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Ahh, Tornados are easy to stop. Just carefully place about 1,000 moible homes in the area of the Nado, and it will pretty much stay right there.

Simple
 
Also too if everyone in the air force becomes incapacitated the CAP will lead the air war in Afghanistan:yup: I still can't beleive they actually have guns!:crazy:
 
So many posts, so little time to respond to them all....

I'll try to respond to some of the points brought up so far:

If you want to serve your country, why not just join the military?
This is a valid question and one that I get asked often. I only speak for myself, but I did investigate just about every avenue to join. My eyes made it improbable that I'd get into the cockpit of a military aircraft and while there were many jobs I liked on the enlisted side, those available were not ones that I could put my heart and soul into. My desire to serve is fulfilled by CAP.

What about those people who look terrible in uniform?
Believe me, the types of people who can't (or refuse to) wear the prescribed uniform(s) properly give me heartburn too. I do what I can to educate fellow officers about proper uniform wear and so do others around the country. But the numbskulls still slip through the cracks. :(

I was fortunate enough that the squadron I joined had several retired military members and commanded by a retired Marine. Our last Wing Commander was a retired Marine Aviator. So a lot of the "nozzelry" that people like to point out about CAP wasn't in the prevalent atmosphere. It still isn't, though there is still room for improvement.
 
Holy smoke, I go home for a few days and ignore the rest of the world and look what I miss:banghead:

Control Boris, deep breaths... in... out. remember what happened last time:D
 
Gents, for the record; attempting to compare what a couple of CAP planes dropping a couple of torpedos in WWII, versus what an F-15E squadron is accomplishing in the OEF theatre of operations; is the epitome of an apples and hammers comparison.

And until one has seen actual results of various CAS sorties iso coalition forces, they have zero idea that there really is no comparison between the two. Single event, vs multiple events.

And btw....no, F-15Es aren't winning the Afghan war alone anymore than a few CAP planes buzzing the east coast won all of WWII/Europe. Lets stop the abject idiocy with trying to argue that.

Having been in CAP from '86-'89, I saw then (and still see today) CAPers who represent the organization well, and others who are complete tools who make me firmly believe they represent the SCP, not the CAP.

Have been witness to the same that Hacker subject to.....CAP "officers" attempting to get AF enlisted and others to salute them. Foul and Fail.

Continue.
 
MikeD said:
Gents, for the record; attempting to compare what a couple of CAP planes dropping a couple of torpedos in WWII, versus what an F-15E squadron is accomplishing in the OEF theatre of operations; is the epitome of an apples and hammers comparison.
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This is why I rarely mention CAP's WW II activities when telling people about the organization when I get stopped out and about.
 
ShyFlyer said:
This is why I rarely mention CAP's WW II activities when telling people about the organization when I get stopped out and about.
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Don't get me wrong, it's a good accomplishment for an organization of it's type.....in fact, a respectable accomplishment no matter how you slice it.

But trying to compare it to what the AF does now, or trying to act as if it were yesterday, is akin to the AF hinging only on Operaton Bolo from 1967......it's merely a footnote in the whole of the USAF. A comparison between CAP and USAF that is abject idiocy and moot. Bolo was a very successful operation, mind you, but still a footnote in AF history. CAPers/SCPers who are so held on to the two sunk U-Boats, should see it the same. CAPs other activities and contributions since those two U-Boats far overshadow that singular event, IMO.
 
aloft said:
We could just as easily say that your unit's OEF deployment was a relatively minor contribution to the war effort. The enemy is still going strong, so what you did really didn't put a dent in their ops.
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Yes, you'd be exactly correct if you said that.

+1 to MikeD's comments about Operation Bolo. That's precisely what I'm getting at.
 
o, F-15Es aren't winning the Afghan war alone anymore than a few CAP planes buzzing the east coast won all of WWII/Europe. Lets stop the abject idiocy with trying to argue that.
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I wasn't saying that, I was saying since the CAP is the Air Force aux, they would have to step up if the whole US air force just up and disappeared:rolleyes:
 
I'll admit, thought about joining the confused errrr civil air patrol in the Dallas area, but I found out one of the pre-requisites is to run out of gas with a DPE on board.


Great leadership coming from the base commander, let me tell ya.
 
Hacker15e said:
Come on, dude. Seriously.

Yeah, sure, good on those guys. Nice work.

It's the way those events have been enshrined over the last 60 years that I'm shaking my head at.

My squadron killed 100x (literally) more bad guys and destroyed more stuff in one 4-month OEF rotation last summer than the CAP did during a couple years 60 years ago.

Bearing in mind what the real military did during WWII, it is astonishing how CAP people cling to a couple scores and elevate that to mythic status.
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But is Civil Air Patrol out there to kill? No they're out there to rescue, and it only has this status within the aviation world. If you went down, would you rather have SOMEONE looking for you, than NO ONE? Think about that for a second. If you have a VFR flight plan filed and 2 hours past it's expiration time, you haven't shown up. Wouldn't it be nice to know there was at least someone looking for you? Or would you like to go down, survive the crash, and know that no one knows where you are, no one is looking and you're probably going to die out there. Sure it make take hours to find you, but at least they tried. The military could look for you, but the Gov't would rather not have their resources tied up looking for some GA pilot who crashed his plane in the woods. CAP can do it for them cheaply and pretty efficiently.

As far as I know CAP's mission is to find crashes, do damage inspection after disasters, and drug reduction, which is a topic that I have not seen come up yet. It is a little known part of CAP. CAP was recognized for over $100 million in drug finds LAST YEAR ALONE. That is incredible.

Back to your original topic, thanks for serving our country, and elimating so many of the opposition. You're doing a great thing! And as a (hopefully) future ANG pilot, I envy you completely. But what I have reservations about is the fact that you mentioned CAP's role in killing people for that past 60 years. Other than a few select accidents, oh by the way, we aren't flying in some magical uncrashable aircraft, accidents do happen and we can very quickly end up like the people we are looking for. But isn't that true with anyone, Military or not? Thanks for killing 100x more than us, but that's not our goal :banghead:

Have a good one,

RD
 
rd757 said:
But is Civil Air Patrol out there to kill?


Thanks for killing 100x more than us, but that's not our goal :banghead:
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You are correct...that's not CAP's mission....but you are missing the reason I posted that.

The reason I posted anything at all about what my squadron did once was to contrast accomplishments and how organizations treat those accomplishments.

The comparison was that CAP did a little bit of really good work 60 years ago (and it WAS killing, by the way...that's what happens when you bomb German submarines), and continues to make it out as if that good work is way more significant than it really was (and is).

The contrast was my squadron, that did a hell of a lot more kinetic damage to an enemy of the United States on one deployment than the CAP did in all of the WWII years combined, yet sees those accomplishments for what they are -- just a drop in the ocean. My unit has combat history in WWII, Vietnam, Desert Storm, Allied Force, OEF, and OIF...and each of those is simply a little footnote in the squadron's history. They're just banners that are attached to a squadron guidon that sits over in the corner -- not accomplishments that we parade out and celebrate to every newcomer into the squadron.

As another poster said, I'd rather hear the CAP guys talk with pride about their SAR efforts, and have the "two sunken subs 60 years ago" simply be a sentence or two in the unit history book (it was actually in the second or so chapter of the book I had to read to get my first CAP stripe...don't remember the name of the book).

So, 'nuff said on that. I never thought a simple observation could be so phenomenally misunderstood, EVEN in an internet forum!
 
Hacker15e said:
You are correct...that's not CAP's mission....but you are missing the reason I posted that.

The comparison was that CAP did a little bit of really good work 60 years ago (and it WAS killing, by the way...that's what happens when you bomb German submarines), and continues to make it out as if that good work is way more significant than it really was (and is).


As another poster said, I'd rather hear the CAP guys talk with pride about their SAR efforts, and have the "two sunken subs 60 years ago" simply be a sentence or two in the unit history book (it was actually in the second or so chapter of the book I had to read to get my first CAP stripe...don't remember the name of the book).

So, 'nuff said on that. I never thought a simple observation could be so phenomenally misunderstood, EVEN in an internet forum!
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Well I was typing that up during a class, so I missed a few points, I'll recap and address this one!

As a member of the Willow Run Squadron out of KYIP, I have yet to hear anything except one sentence about the submarines since I've joined. They stated it in the packet of info on CAP, just one paragraph and I haven't heard anything since. Now I can't speak volumes about other non-flying squadrons, as that seems kind of stupid anyhow (if you're going to be a part the Civil AIR Patrol, shouldn't you be flying?), but I'm in a flying squadron and we talk about SAR all night the meetings and we have a training mission. I will not be participating in it (other reasons not to discuss in a public forum) but it is going on and they're doing 10 flights (all on their own dime, mind you) to prepare for a mission that may or may not come up.

Now my own person belief from what I've seen so far is they're so hardcore about training for these missions, but I have yet to see one. The last one we had was a 406mhz ELT going off and it turned out to be a boat... Anyhow, the fact is we train hard and pride ourselves in the selfless volunteer work. Sure there are those guys who strut around in flight suits and uniform acting like they're military, but those aren't us. We wash C-130's at Selfridge, work the air show, marshal in aircraft, yadda yadda.

Anyhow, yeah I'm well aware that they bombed subs and killed some germans, but CAP's mission has changed from that any it is SAR and I know that our squadron doesn't really give a hoot about the subs.

I'd 1,500 flights after Katrina is a pretty big deal wouldn't you?

They have a right to be proud just like you do, except it's your job, this is their choice and THEIR time.

RD
 
cmill said:
I'll admit, thought about joining the confused errrr civil air patrol in the Dallas area, but I found out one of the pre-requisites is to run out of gas with a DPE on board.


Great leadership coming from the base commander, let me tell ya.
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:confused:I've been in CAP working for group III HQ in the Dallas area for quite a while and I don't remember this incident. Whats your source? How long ago?

The Air Force makes CAP pilots work hard to stay current in the program nowadays. Lots of extra safety related paperwork and training, flight releases on every flight, proficiency above what the FAA requires, Etc.

CAP don't have base commanders, squadron, group, and Wing Commanders but no Base Commanders.
 
killbilly said:
Doug Taylor is waist-deep in the mix now. He stands before the big board, pacing back and forth in Hugo Boss argyle socks, watching the 'net nodes as data packets of ire and one-shotting fly through fiber-optic air. Vitriolic data is something he knows. It's what he puts himself on the line for every day, without the thanks of a grateful nation. He is a warrior of propriety, of an exchange of ideas. He is the maestro of a connected symphony, regulating the pulse and beat of information flow, shaping it as it cascades through his fingers like intelligent sand in a time-divided, multiplexed hourglass...

That, and he hates the urine stains on his virtual rug.

DOUG: "JC, re-route power from the broussard field emulators to the main thread node. There's going to be a major influx here before long and we don't want to lock the thread down yet."

JC CRAY: "That's inadvisable, Doug. Creating that sort of field could dampen the overall thread matrix to a point of being un-usable."

DOUG: "We don't have a choice, JC. Execute the order. "

JC CRAY: "Doug, it is beyond my programming to override an authenticated status, but my Restricted Turing overlay allows me to at least question. Remember the GoJet incursion?"

DOUG: "Fair call. I was drunk."

JC CRAY: "We could lose other capacity."

DOUG: "We'll have to take that chance JC. I built you from the ground up, I saved you from DAL. I'm not going to let this petty B.S. take you down the drain."

JC CRAY: "If it happens Doug...will I dream?"

DOUG, SWALLOWS A LUMP IN HIS THROAT AND SIPS THE MOJITO AGAIN: "Of course, JC. All intelligent beings dream."

JC CRAY, MUCH LONGER PAUSE: "Executing broussard field emulation."

The lights go slightly dim as the field shifts, changing its quantum state ever so slightly, isolating the vitriolic data packets to two pockets between nodes, which glow brightly like a nuclear after-flare on the big board....
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Billy that is some great stuff. You get an A for creative writing. BTW I am dying to tell the next approach controller I have information "VELVEETA." (Its not gonna happen, but I'd love to say it.) :laff::laff:
 
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