ATP vs. FBO

unclenobby said:
What a crazy post.

FBO's flying you beyond what you need? Insanely broad and sweeping statement. So you're telling me an FBO will not sign off a student for written or checkride even if they think they are ready just to get a few more dollars out of them? Most FBO's don't lock in their customers money (unlike ATP) so it makes no sense to do this (it's called return customer, and they depend on them for business)

FBO's giving more ground than you need? Dude, you're the customer, you take as much or as little ground as you need or want to pay for. How about you come in prepared and your instructor will know that and won't need to do much if any ground. Like I said - paid for about 5 hrs ground in 230 hours total time so far for me.

If already knowing the cost gives you peace of mind then good. If you want directly control your cost and have more options then the FBO route is they way to go. Get it done for cheaper and on your terms (i.e. no shoving it down your throat).

Also, your last post kind of implies if you need to be spoon fed then go to an FBO yet you state things get shoved down your throat at ATP (sound's like spoon feeding to me).

If you are a self starter, disciplined and confident you can get everything at an FBO for less than ATP, and probably have more fun doing it.
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The sad thing is that I speak purely from experience having taught at FBO's,gone to FBO's and having gone to ATP I have a much more qualified opinion of the matter than you.
When I got my private at an FBO, I had to beg the school to fly me more often and get done faster. They wanted to string things out. After finishing ATP, I went back there to instruct. More of the same. They like to fly people a max of 3 flights per week.
 
BillH said:
The sad thing is that I speak purely from experience having taught at FBO's,gone to FBO's and having gone to ATP I have a much more qualified opinion of the matter than you.
When I got my private at an FBO, I had to beg the school to fly me more often and get done faster. They wanted to string things out. After finishing ATP, I went back there to instruct. More of the same. They like to fly people a max of 3 flights per week.
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So you're basing argument/opinion based on your experience at one FBO? Ok. And your experience at this FBO was so bad you went back there to work? Makes sense.
 
determined2fly said:
Just curious, what is the story behind that dudes avatar. Im assuming that is some nut on youtube.
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I suggest you check it out. Some totally crazy foul mouthed preacher. He also has a whacked out myspace page. not the poster, but the dude in the avatar. If you need a good laugh, then watch his videos.
 
Douglas said:
This has been really debated in great detail already.
http://forums.jetcareers.com/airline-transport-professionals-atp/79027-multi-time.html

Out of accelerated twin training, ATP is one of the cheapest. It is just too bad nobody is hiring even if you do have 130 hours of twin time.

Still worth it. :sarcasm:

I am a nay-sayer to twin training.
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Good, bad, or indifferent. If you have 100 hrs less multi time than the next guy, that twin training will pay off-----even in the market we are in today.
 
mshunter said:
Good, bad, or indifferent. If you have 100 hrs less multi time than the next guy, that twin training will pay off-----even in the market we are in today.
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IMO, Minimums are minimums, they get you in the door to the interview.
They will take the person they like better, not the person with 100 more multi-time, when they both meet mins.

I would still like to see the proof. I understand how LA can be more expensive, all we need is a website.
 
unclenobby said:
So you're basing argument/opinion based on your experience at one FBO? Ok. And your experience at this FBO was so bad you went back there to work? Makes sense.
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Uhm, you never went to ATP, so you have no clue what you are talking about.
I think I received a maximum of 5 hours of ground for ALL my ratings excluding CFI school at ATP.
And yes, of course I went back to that school in Miami to instruct, I was the MEI. One thing being a student, another being the instructor.
Three flights a week max does NOT make sense, I never claimed it did, that is how the school worked at the time. Now it is different, back then, they had many more students per instructor.
I wish I had a magic wand so I could transplant you into my shoes and live my experiences, then you'd shut up.
 
Douglas said:
Because this makes sense as a business model.
"Please fly less, our flight school has money rolling through the door".

Try again.
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That is how the school operated back when there were many students per instructor. Everyone wanted to fly more often, had to be fair to all students, meant 3 flights a week.
This is just ridiculous, you are trying to poke holes in my logic, yet it is not my logic.
Now, here is some of my own logic for you to poke holes in. <redacted. misspelled, too>
 
Gentlemen....be nice.

Like I said before; both sides have good and bad. There are many FBOs out there, 61 or 141, and just as many different ways for them to do business. Just as there are any number of academies out there, and also as many ways to do business. All have plus's and minus's.
 
dpgtime said:
I would love to show the proof but I made it as a proposal to my family and once I printed it out I deleted it....I know that was stupid. When people say the fbo is cheaper they only talk about ratings and no time building. Yes, and ground is never factored in.


Thanks for the avatar comment.....the man is one of a kind. Check out zuma dogg.


MSHUNTER where is socal are you?
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I did a cost analysis of what the FBO I have been training at, would cost, to go from 85 hours to instructor, as with ATP, if I did it all in their twin, and I came out to roughly the same cost - probably more, if I were to factor in ground school, written tests, commuting (gas), etc (it is about an hour drive away). Considering all that it includes, especially the multi-time, which is important, I figure that ATP, for me, is probably the better deal. With ATP dropping the price on the program, to $49K, if you already have your private, with a little down, it isn't too bad.
 
ChrisH said:
I did a cost analysis of what the FBO I have been training at, would cost, to go from 85 hours to instructor, as with ATP, if I did it all in their twin, and I came out to roughly the same cost - probably more, if I were to factor in ground school, written tests, commuting (gas), etc (it is about an hour drive away). Considering all that it includes, especially the multi-time, which is important, I figure that ATP, for me, is probably the better deal. With ATP dropping the price on the program, to $49K, if you already have your private, with a little down, it isn't too bad.
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Sigh! Don't worry MikeD this is not going to get heated!! Did you do an apples to apples price comparison? Obviously there are benefits to both roots that are hard to quantify but purely price was the reason for the original post.
At ATP 165 hrs twin = 50 in the Sim + 50 Safety pilot (half price - you would need to find a fellow pilot with the same intentions). The rest is checkrides and mostly instruction.
Any chance you could show us your analysis??
If it works for you then fire away,
 
BillH said:
Uhm, you never went to ATP, so you have no clue what you are talking about.
I think I received a maximum of 5 hours of ground for ALL my ratings excluding CFI school at ATP.
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You can't blame ATP completely on how much ground you received. That's on your instructor and you. ATP provides a timeline of when things need to get done for the student, and it's up to the instructor to make sure it all gets done. If your instructor didn't put in the time that you needed, that's his fault. If you didn't press your instructor for more ground instruction that you feel you may have needed, that's your fault.

If you're reading this thread and considering whether ATP is worth it to you, please understand this distinction. I spent a year at the PHX location, both as a student and as an instructor, and I spent tons of time both receiving and giving ground instruction. Not every location operates the same, so don't blame ATP if your instructor was subpar about his job.
 
VA_av8r said:
You can't blame ATP completely on how much ground you received. That's on your instructor and you. ATP provides a timeline of when things need to get done for the student, and it's up to the instructor to make sure it all gets done. If your instructor didn't put in the time that you needed, that's his fault. If you didn't press your instructor for more ground instruction that you feel you may have needed, that's your fault.

If you're reading this thread and considering whether ATP is worth it to you, please understand this distinction. I spent a year at the PHX location, both as a student and as an instructor, and I spent tons of time both receiving and giving ground instruction. Not every location operates the same, so don't blame ATP if your instructor was subpar about his job.
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I don't blame ATP, in fact I am glad I only had 5 hours of ground, I already knew the material. Ground in JAX for the PPL's consisted of telling students to stay in the room all day with the automatic response to every question, "look it up". Well when I was in CFI school it was that way.
 
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