TSA at your FBO

[braunpilot]

I'm sure she'll find a way to exempt herself.

Not defending her, but she is third in line to be president. Congress made it a law that she has to travel on government aircraft now. Take it FWIW.

Side subject,

I fly to MEM each day and now the TSA is trying to make me get an airport badge to go on the FBO ramp unescorted. Apparently it's not just LASP anymore. They want to slow all non commercial aircraft. My part 135 badge does not meet their requirements. Any ideas? Should I call AOPA/NBAA?

 

[germb747]

If I wasn't in a SIDA area and there's nothing put out officially on the requirement to carry ID/wear a badge, I'd politely tell TSA to kiss my a$$. These people remind me of the "lunch lady" we used to have in junior high school.

 

[mshunter]

Not defending her, but she is third in line to be president. Congress made it a law that she has to travel on government aircraft now. Take it FWIW.

Side subject,

I fly to MEM each day and now the TSA is trying to make me get an airport badge to go on the FBO ramp unescorted. Apparently it's not just LASP anymore. They want to slow all non commercial aircraft. My part 135 badge does not meet their requirements. Any ideas? Should I call AOPA/NBAA?

Call AOPA. And as the previous post says, tell the over glorified TSA (Totally Senseless Authority) to find the spot where the sun doesn't shine, and apply their lips to it! As far as I know, the 135 badge you probably carry is your ramp badge.

 

[MikeD]

The big peoblem I have with TSA is that it's nothing more than post-9/11 "window dressing"..."feel good" legislation, if you will. Airport security was not a problem during 9/11, as the terrorists got through security with items that were legal at that time. To make the masses of sheep in the USA feel "safe", the TSA was created; which did little more than take burger-flippers and turn them into federalized burger-flippers (no offense to burger flippers). Truth be told, you have your good and bad people within TSA, but me beef (no pun intended) isn't with the rank and file of TSA, its with the existance of the agency itself, which is nothing more than another bloated level of bureaucracy.

Same with the DHS. Another unneeded agency post 9/11. There was little wrong with having US Customs under the Treasury Dept, the US Border Patrol under Justice, and the US Coast Guard under Transportation. It was working fine. "Homeland Security" makes people "feel good" as a title, so voila....it was made so. Being in the new CBP myself....an offshoot of combining Customs, making INS now CIS (Citizenship and Immigration Services...the "white hats" there to help you)), creating ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement...the "black hat"s), and making US Border Patrol now OBP, or Office of Border Patrol; has done little to nothing to streamline and make things work easier, IMHO. On the aviation side, Border Patrol Aviation and Customs Aviation combined to become the CBP Air and Marine. Sounds good, huh? Problem is, there are severe cultural differences between the two: Customs traditionally hired guys who were experienced (over 1500TT) and usually ex-military pilots...civilians too. Guys came there with alot of airmanship, air sense, SA, and ability. Border Patrol gets their pilots as "pilot trainees"....field agents with at least 3 years ground time who get to work towards their comm/inst in a C-182, C-21 or PA-18, then get unleashed in an OH-6 or UH-1 post training. Naturally, there is head-butting between the two camp...the Customs (blue) and the BP (green). Not to be biased, but looking at BPs flight safety record, it isn't so hot. BP looks at Customs as primadonnas, while Customs looks at BP pilots/pilot trainees as zero-SA accidents waiting to happen. To date, this integration problem hasn't really been solved.

 

[BillErvin]

. Border Patrol gets their pilots as "pilot trainees"....field agents with at least 3 years ground time who get to work towards their comm/inst in a C-182, C-21 or PA-18, then get unleashed in an OH-6 or UH-1 post training. Naturally, there is head-butting between the two camp...the Customs (blue) and the BP (green). Not to be biased, but looking at BPs flight safety record, it isn't so hot. BP looks at Customs as primadonnas, while Customs looks at BP pilots/pilot trainees as zero-SA accidents waiting to happen. To date, this integration problem hasn't really been solved.

I hate to hijack this thread, But having bled green for a lot of years (18) I do take a little offense to your remarks. First of all, BP pilot trainees' prior to CBP had to have no less than 500 hours TT, have 25 Instrument and a Commercial ticket just to become a "Trainee". Then they spent a lot of time working with journeyman pilots and flying off hours until they had the same minimums that CBP uses to hire nowadays, before they were cut loose. The idea of using experienced agents was to have someone in the air that knows what the agents on the ground were up too, and the guys on the ground knew the guy in the air knew what was going on.

As far as the accident rate, the type of flying the Border Patrol does (very low, very slow, tracking groups on the ground, a lot of circling groups on the ground and all the while, guiding ground units to them.) Well, lets just say, it can be very trying to say the least. If you haven't been there and done it, you might cut a little slack:banghead:

Some of the best stick and rudder pilots I have ever known were Border Patrol pilots, precisely because of the type of flying they do day-in and day-out

The types of flying that Customs vs Border Patrol do, are vastly different. They both had good pilots for the type of flying that each did, but the two cultures are going to continue to butt heads until someone figures out that they need to split them.

Ok, I'll step off my soapbox now

Back to bashing TSAanic: No love here man!!!

 

[braunpilot]

There is no love for the TSA in the government? No....never would have thought that. I will call AOPA on Tuesday when I get back down to MEM. Love the banks being closed on Monday. Oh well, thanks for the info.

 

[MikeD]

I hate to hijack this thread, But having bled green for a lot of years (18) I do take a little offense to your remarks. First of all, BP pilot trainees' prior to CBP had to have no less than 500 hours TT, have 25 Instrument and a Commercial ticket just to become a "Trainee". Then they spent a lot of time working with journeyman pilots and flying off hours until they had the same minimums that CBP uses to hire nowadays, before they were cut loose. The idea of using experienced agents was to have someone in the air that knows what the agents on the ground were up too, and the guys on the ground knew the guy in the air knew what was going on.

No offense intended, just judging the basics of the program as I see it done in my area. Agree with a guy knowing what someone does on the ground, but where I am, in the desire to generate pilots, many of the guys have time, but little more than point to point A to B, yet talk like they've got experience down in the weeds when they're really just timebuilding on those rides.

As far as the accident rate, the type of flying the Border Patrol does (very low, very slow, tracking groups on the ground, a lot of circling groups on the ground and all the while, guiding ground units to them.) Well, lets just say, it can be very trying to say the least. If you haven't been there and done it, you might cut a little slack:banghead:

Being former green, then you're well aware too of a good number of accidents from stuff completely unrelated to the type of flying being performed? Like multiple OH-6 accidents from running out of fuel, one I witnessed at TUS in 2000 personally. VERY few times when that can be justified. Accidents that happen due to the inherent danger of the job, as you describe, come with the territory, and are understandable to a good degree. I'm not bashing the pilots, I'm commenting on putting relative inexperience of the new pilots, combined with a high performance aircraft, combined with the tactically challenging flying you describe; and the chance for accidents is higher due to the inexperience. A number of the accidents aren't even related to the tactical situation, but are moreso ones of basic airmanship...again, due to inexperience, IMHO. Like landing a PA-18 in a crosswind and running off the side of the runway into a fixed-distance marker sign and a number of runway lights; when you had a perpendicular runway available to use.

Some of the best stick and rudder pilots I have ever known were Border Patrol pilots, precisely because of the type of flying they do day-in and day-out

And when they've gained experience doing the job, I agree with you....many good ones out there. See them myself. But again, throwing an inexperienced pilot in a demanding environment isn't a good recipe.

The types of flying that Customs vs Border Patrol do, are vastly different. They both had good pilots for the type of flying that each did, but the two cultures are going to continue to butt heads until someone figures out that they need to split them.

Ok, I'll step off my soapbox now

Back to bashing TSAanic: No love here man!!!

I personally wish there was some way to have the crews work together....for a merge to be able to work, but I agree with you.....sign cutting by helo and air intercepts by helo are two vastly different things; and maybe they can't be integrated. So yes, i would have to agree that they need to be separated again.

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