Might as well move to the Lav Now (Pop the Popcorn Out)

When the industry is in the toilet like it is now and there is an abundance of pilots looking for jobs, the chances that someone with low time and wet ink on a commercial or CFI certificate will catch a break are rather slim. Instead you will come across companies like Castle taking advantage of the situation by charging pilots for some flight time without creating expenses on their end. Pretty much free money for them. You are not taking a job from someone but you are not really helping yourself either. Here are some issues you might consider:

How much time will this opportunity cost you? Will you be working full time to the point you cannot take on another job that actually brings in some money? If so, what will that do to your financial situation for the future? Will you accrue debt from daily expenses that you cannot pay?

How long could you maintain your own currency with $2500? Do you think you could get another job that pays you money sooner then you would burn through $2500 to maintain currency? Could you find even a minimum wage job in the meantime to offset expenses and save some money?

How much time could you expect to log in a year? Two years? When the economy and industry turn around hiring minimums will stay high for quite awhile. You might be able to reach the multi minimums for a regional but you would still likely fall way short of the minimum total time requirements.

When hiring resumes I think it will be a long time before we see minimums below 1500/500. That is just a guess I'm pulling out of my butt, however considering the number and experience level of pilots on the street, I doubt it is too far off. Unlike after 9/11, not only are pilots being furloughed but a lot of companies are shutting down. The market is getting flooded with pilots that do not have jobs to go back to. This is another reason why I think hiring minimums at the regionals will stay high for a couple of years.
 
PCL_128 said:
The message is to not do the same stupid crap I did.



That's the problem: people don't notice. I want people to notice. I'm tired of newbie pilots wanting to be coddled and told that they can do whatever they want to do. Some things are right, some things are wrong.
Click to expand...


Personally I'm glad to see that we have people that have different ways of voicing themselves here. Sometimes people need to be hit over the head with a heavy blunt object to get the message. Sometimes the subtle approach works. What's important is that people get to hear what's being spoken. Better to learn before you make the mistake and have to pay the price, rather than screw up later and blackball yourself. The real world isn't always forgiving. Fair or not, that's the reality.
 
Number1atNumber2 said:
Sometimes people need to be hit over the head with a heavy blunt object to get the message........

..... The real world isn't always forgiving. Fair or not, that's the reality.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat:

I think the "Lets hold hands and sing songs around the camp fire" approach has invited quite a few liabilities into this business.

I have one former student in particular that I am certain will someday wreck an airplane. He came in being fed the lines of "Being a pilot is easy" and "anyone can do it". After a frightening few weeks of working with him on his instrument rating he "fired" me after I sat him down and had the "This business is not for you" talk.

He is an MEI now, he failed three checkrides on the way. I hear him on the radio all the time saying and doing stupid things and I have personally heard tower ask him to call twice. The DPE had three in a row fail from him, all three in the Oral exam.

The sad thing is, he does not realize how much of a hazard he is. He really thinks he is a good pilot. He really thinks he is a good instructor. So to me sugar coating reality to student pilots and those trying to build time is irresponsible at best.
 
bdhill1979 said:
:yeahthat:

I think the "Lets hold hands and sing songs around the camp fire" approach has invited quite a few liabilities into this business.

I have one former student in particular that I am certain will someday wreck an airplane. He came in being fed the lines of "Being a pilot is easy" and "anyone can do it". After a frightening few weeks of working with him on his instrument rating he "fired" me after I sat him down and had the "This business is not for you" talk.

He is an MEI now, he failed three checkrides on the way. I hear him on the radio all the time saying and doing stupid things and I have personally heard tower ask him to call twice. The DPE had three in a row fail from him, all three in the Oral exam.

The sad thing is, he does not realize how much of a hazard he is. He really thinks he is a good pilot. He really thinks he is a good instructor. So to me sugar coating reality to student pilots and those trying to build time is irresponsible at best.
Click to expand...

Almost correct, "flying" is easy, anyone can do it, making decisions is tough, and that's what gets people killed.
 
ppragman said:
Almost correct, "flying" is easy, anyone can do it, making decisions is tough, and that's what gets people killed.
Click to expand...
Oh man it is way more than that; Making decisions is only one facet.

In order to make that decision you have to plan ahead, know your options, monitor conditions and trends, maintain situational awareness, navigate, monitor your airplane, recognize when an alternate decision may be necessary, know what resources are available to you, know the appropriate response, act on that decision, communicate your actions to crew or ATC, monitor the results of that decision, and make additional decisions if necessary.

All while doing the "easy" part of flying the airplane.
 
How hard have you looked for a CFI job? They are definitely tight right now, but I have kept tabs on all my recent students leaving CFI school and they all have found jobs.

BTW, this thread could easily be 6 pages shorter and have the same worth.
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
How hard have you looked for a CFI job? They are definitely tight right now, but I have kept tabs on all my recent students leaving CFI school and they all have found jobs.

BTW, this thread could easily be 6 pages shorter and have the same worth.
Click to expand...

I am probably close to 50 resumes I have dropped over the past couple months to anywhere in the lower 48. I have a few leads but nothing except the "promise" of a phone interview.
 
jhugz said:
I am probably close to 50 resumes I have dropped over the past couple months to anywhere in the lower 48. I have a few leads but nothing except the "promise" of a phone interview.
Click to expand...
Man if you are looking for a CFI job this is very much the wrong way to do it.

A wet Flight Instructor Certificate means pretty much nothing on a resume; those are a dime a dozen. At the first school I worked at we had resumes show up, and sit in a drawer for months. The jobs went to the guys that walked in the door, introduced themselves, and made themselves known to the company.

This was when turnover was so high we were hiring a new guy every week. I don't think I ever saw a resume get called on.

Flight instruction is a VERY face to face business; if they don't know who you are, they probably won't call.

Almost every instructor I have seen hired; was hired face to face. They were available right when the school needed them, the school knew who they were, and the school didn't even look at the resumes.


Flight school hiring needs fluctuate constantly; instructors stay, instructors leave depending on the job market "up the ladder". It also depends greatly on student activity.

Being a "face" instead of a piece of paper, at the right time, will go a long way.

So the question is:
How many face to face attempts have you made?
 
bdhill1979 said:
Man if you are looking for a CFI job this is very much the wrong way to do it.

A wet Flight Instructor Certificate means pretty much nothing on a resume; those are a dime a dozen. At the first school I worked at we had resumes show up, and sit in a drawer for months. The jobs went to the guys that walked in the door, introduced themselves, and made themselves known to the company.

This was when turnover was so high we were hiring a new guy every week. I don't think I ever saw a resume get called on.

Flight instruction is a VERY face to face business; if they don't know who you are, they probably won't call.

Almost every instructor I have seen hired; was hired face to face. They were available right when the school needed them, the school knew who they were, and the school didn't even look at the resumes.


Flight school hiring needs fluctuate constantly; instructors stay, instructors leave depending on the job market "up the ladder". It also depends greatly on student activity.

Being a "face" instead of a piece of paper, at the right time, will go a long way.

So the question is:
How many face to face attempts have you made?
Click to expand...

A couple at my local airports however flight instructing in NE Ohio is pretty tough to do right now. Freelance is next to impossible and there is maybe one flight school in the area doing ok. I just can't justify driving down to Florida to pass out resumes without the possibility of an interview.
 
jhugz said:
A couple at my local airports however flight instructing in NE Ohio is pretty tough to do right now. Freelance is next to impossible and there is maybe one flight school in the area doing ok. I just can't justify driving down to Florida to pass out resumes without the possibility of an interview.
Click to expand...

You are, of course, aware that if you didn't alienate people around here you'd have folks offering you hook you up with a flight instructing job, right?

I've lost count of the number of people I've helped get jobs over the last few years, and can tell you very clearly all the folks I owe favors to because of all the help they've given me. There ARE people here who know where the jobs are, but I'm willing to bet they're really unwilling to lend a hand to somebody they're afraid will stab them in the back, ala the GoJets fiasco.
 
How many is a couple?

I count over 20 airports in North East Ohio going north and east from Akron. All are within about an hours drive of each other.

In five minutes of internet searching I find three that at least say on their websites that they are hiring instructors.
 
bdhill1979 said:
How many is a couple?

I count over 20 airports in North East Ohio going north and east from Akron. All are within about an hours drive of each other.

In five minutes of internet searching I find three that at least say on their websites that they are hiring instructors.
Click to expand...

Your Google-fu is strong bdhill. Nice work.
 
jtrain609 said:
You are, of course, aware that if you didn't alienate people around here you'd have folks offering you hook you up with a flight instructing job, right?.........There ARE people here who know where the jobs are, but I'm willing to bet they're really unwilling to lend a hand to somebody they're afraid will stab them in the back, ala the GoJets fiasco.
Click to expand...

Bingo.
 
jtrain609 said:
You are, of course, aware that if you didn't alienate people around here you'd have folks offering you hook you up with a flight instructing job, right?

I've lost count of the number of people I've helped get jobs over the last few years, and can tell you very clearly all the folks I owe favors to because of all the help they've given me. There ARE people here who know where the jobs are, but I'm willing to bet they're really unwilling to lend a hand to somebody they're afraid will stab them in the back, ala the GoJets fiasco.
Click to expand...


This thread just needs to be put down to put it mildly. Look, jhugz just likes to stir the pot, and PCL and others go ballistic when they see some of the stuff that he writes, seems simple enough for me.

As for flight instruction jobs jhugz, there are plenty of them out there, they are ubiquitous, as are the jobs in the "1000TT or less section" really, the problem is you have to take a leap and leave the area you're in because clearly there isn't much there, or you are unwilling to work there, or you have alienated the people who work in this region, or those people are #######s, etc. Just jump up and go, sell your #### and shoot for the moon. I tried, I got burned doing it (e.g. no pay, no training, ran out of money came back to mom and dad for several months to get back on my feet) but that's not to say that you or anyone else will get burned. If you don't try something, you'll never get anywhere.

/rant.

-pat
 
bdhill1979 said:
Oh man it is way more than that; Making decisions is only one facet.

In order to make that decision you have to plan ahead, know your options, monitor conditions and trends, maintain situational awareness, navigate, monitor your airplane, recognize when an alternate decision may be necessary, know what resources are available to you, know the appropriate response, act on that decision, communicate your actions to crew or ATC, monitor the results of that decision, and make additional decisions if necessary.

All while doing the "easy" part of flying the airplane.
Click to expand...


Exactly what I mean. I know a bunch of guys who are decent at driving their cubs around, or can grease most of their landings, but I still don't fly with them. Good stick does not equal good pilot, and every year, somebody puts one in the dirt because bad decision making rather than poor flying skills.

To be honest, some of the better pilots I know have less than average flying skills if I were to rate them, but an extraordinary ability to solve problems and tackle the mental obstacles that make the profession difficult.
 
ppragman said:
This thread just needs to be put down to put it mildly. Look, jhugz just likes to stir the pot, and PCL and others go ballistic when they see some of the stuff that he writes, seems simple enough for me.

As for flight instruction jobs jhugz, there are plenty of them out there, they are ubiquitous, as are the jobs in the "1000TT or less section" really, the problem is you have to take a leap and leave the area you're in because clearly there isn't much there, or you are unwilling to work there, or you have alienated the people who work in this region, or those people are #######s, etc. Just jump up and go, sell your #### and shoot for the moon. I tried, I got burned doing it (e.g. no pay, no training, ran out of money came back to mom and dad for several months to get back on my feet) but that's not to say that you or anyone else will get burned. If you don't try something, you'll never get anywhere.

/rant.

-pat
Click to expand...

ppragman, You said some good stuff there.
 
JHugz I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. Given this time of year theres not much going on here in NE Ohio but come spring there will be plenty of activity as usual. Your problem is you pissed off to many people at Skypark and Dan won't let you instruct there. You know as well as I do that both ground schools are full starting in two weeks and there will be a abundance of students come May as there always is. Just look at the website on the front page and see how many students graduated this year. You just made a bad decision by alienating yourself with pretty much everyone at the airport. I feel for you and I hope you can find work somewhere but unfortunaly I think you have ruined your chances anywhere in NE Ohio. Just keep your head up and looking and remember NEVER burn bridges! You never know where your next job oppurtiny might come from. If i hear of anything I will let you know.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top