ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Appreciated

Gambinja

New Member
Hi Everybody,

I'm currently flying out of a 141 University program in Chicago, and am of Junior status there. I have my PPL w/ Instrument rating and am finishing up my Commercial training, and will be done with that after this coming Spring semester.

I am a very motivated individual, and would like to get all my ratings and certificates as fast as possible - I cannot wait to instruct (I have had the privlege of having some great instructors and cannot wait to do for others what they have done to me).

As much as I like the 141 program I'm enrolled in now, money has become an issue lately, and it has me seriously thinking of doing either an American Flyers/ATP program for my CFI,II, and MEI, with the rationale being that these programs come at a fixed cost. I know there are some additional costs to these programs, but I have come to the conclusion that this would be a better option fiscally than asking my parents for $1,000 here and there every other week for additional flight training.

My question(s) to you all...

What do you think of these CFII,II, MEI "shake and bake" programs? Are they worth it? Do the pros outweigh the cons?

For those who have been through these programs? What did you like/dislike about it? Would you recommend it to others?

I have 200TT, and would like to be ready to explore any airline opportunities that are available in late 2010, or 2011. Please spare the "there will be no opportunities for a long time" speech. I know things will be rough for awhile, but that will not stop me from doing everything that I can to be ready when the time comes that jobs are available.

Thank you for any and all input to my questions. Happy holiday season to you all!
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

Stay as far away as possible from American Flyers out of DuPage. This is first hand knowledge. Let me go back and try to find some threads for you.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

Do you realize how many CFI's are out there that cannot find a job right now? Good luck to you.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

Thank you for the input. I do understand the situation right now - I'm not naive. Just because times are tough I'll have to put my dream on hold? Now's the time to get the ratings. Train at the valley so you're ready for the peak. Again, thank you for your input.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

Thank you for the input. I do understand the situation right now - I'm not naive. Just because times are tough I'll have to put my dream on hold? Now's the time to get the ratings. Train at the valley so you're ready for the peak. Again, thank you for your input.

Exactly. :) Good luck to ya!
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

Thank you for the input. I do understand the situation right now - I'm not naive. Just because times are tough I'll have to put my dream on hold? Now's the time to get the ratings. Train at the valley so you're ready for the peak. Again, thank you for your input.
Will you have 1500 hours and your ATP for the next peak? If your answer is yes, then you do not need a fast paced program to get your ratings.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

My main rationale for doing one of these programs is to start instructing as fast as possible in order to give myself the best chance when hiring starts again. Albeit I'm definitely aware of the fact that I'm not going to "make" money instructing, I would like the little money I will make going into my pocket instead of out of my parents'.

I will most likely not have the 1500TT and ATP that you're suggesting will be required to get an airline job (I'm assuming that's what you're talking about - an airline job), but I do know for a fact that 700TT and about 30-50 multi would give me a better shot than what I have now.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

My main rationale for doing one of these programs is to start instructing as fast as possible in order to give myself the best chance when hiring starts again. Albeit I'm definitely aware of the fact that I'm not going to "make" money instructing, I would like the little money I will make going into my pocket instead of out of my parents'.

I will most likely not have the 1500TT and ATP that you're suggesting will be required to get an airline job (I'm assuming that's what you're talking about - an airline job), but I do know for a fact that 700TT and about 30-50 multi would give me a better shot than what I have now.
I just hope you realize however that your biggest hurdle right now will be finding a CFI job. You will probably have to search across the country to find one. I've been trying to get my friends a CFI job but with 10 to 30 + applicants sending in resumes to the flight school every week, many of which are VERY experienced, it is hard. I am very thankful to have the CFI job that I have.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

I understand completely. That's why I'm networking my a** off, studying on weekends, busting my a** in the classroom and trying to get as much done as possible while I'm in school so I can give myself the best chance. You always miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

I did the American Flyers CFI program in Pompano Beach (KPMP) earlier this year. First off it is not a set price. If you do the training pt.61 they quote the price as $2995 or something like that. So the first day of class you pay them that amount or if you do the training under pt.141 the cost is around $5,000. Not very many people choose to do it under pt.141. Anyways, Monday-Friday the class met with a ground instructor for 4 hours. Then on the weekends they do prep for the various written tests. If the class met in the morning, then you would either study for another 4 hours in the afternoon or go flying. Sometimes the class would have morning flights and then we would have our 4 hour classroom time in the afternoon. The chief instructor at PMP location does the majority of the classroom instruction. As the class progresses everybody gets in front of the room and practices teaching. Then after you present to the class (could be on s-turns, stalls, BAI, elements of an ILS etc..) each of your classmates critiques you and then finally the chief instructor does. Everybody actually learns a lot since they have you break down every manuever in detail. As for the price, don't expect to just pay $2995. Everybody in my class went over not only the price but also the 30-days. I was the first to finish in my class at 38 days and a total of about $4500. I wasn't 100% happy with the program but I feel I learned a ton and come out very knowledgeable. The classroom setting is cool because you can use your classmates to practice teaching...(and also go out with when you have some time). Any other questions feel free to ask!
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

For what I hear the PMP one is much better then the DPA one. I did mine for about 5k and under 141
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

It seems like everyone who goes to American Flyer's says the info is great, at least some locations, does that compensate for going over on price. If the consensus says you will pay $5k and learn a lot isn't that worth it?
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

It seems like everyone who goes to American Flyer's says the info is great, at least some locations, does that compensate for going over on price. If the consensus says you will pay $5k and learn a lot isn't that worth it?

Flyer's ground schools are pointless and useless if your even a half way competent commercial pilot. The biggest advantage is having others to study with. This is where you learn the most and help each other out. Read my thread above about Flyers and see how much they helped me.:sarcasm:
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

I did the American Flyers 30 day CFI academy in Addison TX and was very pleased. I got my initial checkride (CFI-I) within the first 2 weeks. Then got my add-on (CFI-A) about a week later. All of the staff in Addison were very top notch and professional. The coolest part was they offered me a job at the Addison and Fort Worth locations. I already had an offer that would eventually lead to a cheap MEI and some good multi time so I turned it down. All total for the CFI-I and CFI-A, I spent about $4000. Yes they do advertise the academy at $2995 however, I spoke with the school director a number of times while shopping around and he was very informative and upfront about the program and the costs. He told me to prepare to spend about $5000, so there were no money surprises for me once I signed up. The only bad thing is this does not include the MEI. I enjoyed training there and working the other instructors in my class....it was fun. Good luck!
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

ATP CFI school is a joke. Frank Varceloma is an #########. he is the instructor @ vegas. i learned nothing from him. and i still managed a bust free record. they say the program is 2 weeks, but my checkride was 7 days after i showed up. good thing i showed up prepared.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

While Frank may not give you a warm fuzzy, he is knowledgeable and apparently did ok by you if you went through unscathed. That said, Vegas is not the only CFI location available.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

did the 2 week CFI program at CRG in Feb 2005. Passed all three in the allotted time. There were others there (both ATP career pilots and outside guys like me) that didn't get signed off or got signed off but didn't feel comfortable enough to take the ride or for various reasons weren't able to take all three rides in the 2 weeks and couldn't stay longer. I live in Jax so it was an easy decision. I thought I had a pretty good foundation of knowledge going in (DCA Pt 141 for my prvt-inst-comm). It was a piece of cake and am glad I did it that way vs. taking months just to get my CFI. Then I couldn't find an instructor job for a year but thats because I wasn't willing to move.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

While Frank may not give you a warm fuzzy, he is knowledgeable and apparently did ok by you if you went through unscathed. That said, Vegas is not the only CFI location available.


i'm not asking for a warm fuzzy. I am asking for respect. And I don't attest to the fact that he got me through CFI school. It was the instructors I had before I got there that got me through(thanks Jamal and Ryan). He tought me nothing new, except for endorsements. But I guess with AC 61-65E, and a FAR/AIM I could have figured it out on my own. Or I could have even used my own logbook for examples. Standing up infront of a class and correcting a CFI pretest for 6 days which was required to be done before I got there is not teaching if you ask me. Once he was done for the day, correcting our pre-test, he was gone. Off in his Caddy. The only guy who was there that would help out was Keith. Scott (i think that was his name) was preaty good to. But the other guy(can't remember his name), was a pompas jerk, never there. I flew into there one day on a x-country, and dodged cells the whole way in. Throttles to idle, push the nose over, speed at 160kts and climbing, and still going up at 2000fpm. There was a convective sigmet over almost the whole western US, with HUGE cells all over the place, and lightning everywhere. Radar was mostley red, with a bit of purple in the mix. We told dispatch that we refused to go, and he was all p. o'ed about it. It wasn't even any of his buisness. I wish I could remember his name.
 
Re: ATP/American Flyers CFI Program - Input Greatly Apprecia

i'm not asking for a warm fuzzy. I am asking for respect. And I don't attest to the fact that he got me through CFI school. It was the instructors I had before I got there that got me through(thanks Jamal and Ryan). He tought me nothing new, except for endorsements. But I guess with AC 61-65E, and a FAR/AIM I could have figured it out on my own. Or I could have even used my own logbook for examples. Standing up infront of a class and correcting a CFI pretest for 6 days which was required to be done before I got there is not teaching if you ask me. Once he was done for the day, correcting our pre-test, he was gone. Off in his Caddy. The only guy who was there that would help out was Keith. Scott (i think that was his name) was preaty good to. But the other guy(can't remember his name), was a pompas jerk, never there. I flew into there one day on a x-country, and dodged cells the whole way in. Throttles to idle, push the nose over, speed at 160kts and climbing, and still going up at 2000fpm. There was a convective sigmet over almost the whole western US, with HUGE cells all over the place, and lightning everywhere. Radar was mostley red, with a bit of purple in the mix. We told dispatch that we refused to go, and he was all p. o'ed about it. It wasn't even any of his buisness. I wish I could remember his name.

How is any of this even relevant? Dispatch always tries to get you to go, but your PIC you should have told them no.

Now back to the original thread. Vegas is not the only CFI location at ATP. They have the CFI school at both ATL and JAX. I went through the location in ATL. The biggest thing you need to know is that you need to have a solid knowledge base going in. Don't expect them to teach you everything in a week, it's not going to happen. The course is one week of studying and then one week of checkrides. It's not that bad if you study a lot ahead of time.
 
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