Outsourcing and your career

I'm betting the reason the furlough didn't happen was b/c Delta plays the marketing schedule pretty close to the vest. It would suck in the dept of retraining costs to furlough guys only to bring them back 3 months later. It's cheaper to keep them around longer and see what happens. What's cheaper? $5175 for paying a 1st year FO guarantee for 3 months or sending him through the sims again?

It's one thing to think positive. If I wasn't a positive thinker, I'd have gone insane a long time ago at my company. It's also a good thing to ignore the stuff that's out of your control. However, you have to do both with a dose of reality. I think every pilot that's within the bottom 100-200 of their seniority list at every regional should have furlough in the back of their minds. I'm sure all the guys hired at Comair in early 2007 thought they were safe until a few months ago, too. I'm in the bottom 50 of CAs, and I'm seriously concerned about winding up an FO again. Sure, it may not happen. But I'm not gonna live carefree day to day ignoring the fact only to get caught with no money saved back on FO pay.
 
I'm betting the reason the furlough didn't happen was b/c Delta plays the marketing schedule pretty close to the vest. It would suck in the dept of retraining costs to furlough guys only to bring them back 3 months later. It's cheaper to keep them around longer and see what happens. What's cheaper? $5175 for paying a 1st year FO guarantee for 3 months or sending him through the sims again?

That's exactly what's happening here, plus the hope of new flying outside Delta in the Spring. If nothing happens past March I think the chopping board will be coming out for ASA and Skywest.
 
I’ve already walked away, so I can answer this question. It wasn’t the money. When I left Air Wisconsin in mid-2006, my base salary, with slightly less than 7 years in, was around $64000 a year. My actual W-2 wages were in excess of $70000. That is good money in most areas of the country, and certainly more than what the average person earns. I was paying my bills and putting money away for the future, and had money for extras once in a while. I had no complaints.

I left for two basic reasons. The first was because, as I like to put it, “There was always something.” It seemed like every time things were going good, something would come along to mess it up. 9/11, the concessions, the loss of UAL flying, and the shift to USAir finally made me realize that there was always going to be something coming along to threaten my livelihood. I got tired of worrying about it. There are certainly easier ways to make a living, or at least less worrisome ones.

The second was that I got tired of the lifestyle. It didn’t bother me when I was young, single, and carefree. It was exciting. But then one day I met a nice girl, got married, and we started talking about a family, and the allure was lost. Holidays on the road, missed outings with friends and family, three or four nights away from home each week, all changed my perspective.

Simply put, my personal and professional interests shifted. The world didn’t change. I did.

Now being outside of the profession, I have had a shift in perspective as well. I used to be one of those “management is out to screw you” people. I just don’t believe it anymore. Management is "out" to operate a safe airline, profitably. This means that sometimes they have to make decisions that employees find distressing. However, I refuse to believe that they are happily shredding labor contracts, furloughing employees, and outsourcing jobs. I'm sure they'd much rather run a profitable company that offers good opportunities and bright prospects for all.

Profits are the key to that. In almost 100 years of commercial aviation, no one has figured out how to make a significant, sustainable profit. Until someone does, the industry will continue on this course. Airline employees need do what they can to help their company make money. You do that by doing your job as safely, efficiently, and economically as possible, and not succumbing to the “management is out to screw you” mindset.

Do that, and maybe things will turn around. Or maybe they won't, but I don't see much point in continuing on the same course we've been on for almost a hundred years.
 
That's exactly what's happening here, plus the hope of new flying outside Delta in the Spring. If nothing happens past March I think the chopping board will be coming out for ASA and Skywest.

Unfortunately, that's a hope shared by every other regional out there. Problem is, there's not much "new" flying to bid on. If Mesa goes under, there'll be United flying. The Delta flying Mesa has will probably just get axed to cut domestic flights. US Airways MAY keep some of that flying on, but I'm betting they'll cut back, too. So, regionals are circling Mesa like a carcass hoping to get some pickings if they go under. If they don't....well, I don't see too many options for new flying for anyone until 2010.

If the economy wasn't sagging, might be a different story.
 
Unfortunately, that's a hope shared by every other regional out there. Problem is, there's not much "new" flying to bid on. If Mesa goes under, there'll be United flying. The Delta flying Mesa has will probably just get axed to cut domestic flights. US Airways MAY keep some of that flying on, but I'm betting they'll cut back, too. So, regionals are circling Mesa like a carcass hoping to get some pickings if they go under. If they don't....well, I don't see too many options for new flying for anyone until 2010.

If the economy wasn't sagging, might be a different story.

Completely agree. If Mesa goes under it will begin WWIII for that flying. I bet US Airways is looking forward to that because it will just be underbid after underbid to get that flying. But if it comes down to how quickly a regional can get the operation going I like our chances...

Oh BTW, Mesa isn't the only regional we're looking at on deathwatch. There is another.....
 
Good post by Toounces.

This industry needs to get re-regulated, and the RLA needs to be done away with. These two things alone can be held responsible for the errosion of our profession, as well as for the huge MESS with the airlines right now.

Question is, does anybody in office share similar views?

As for the original question, I have not been furloughed YET, and have not been in the industry for a long time. I see everything that is wrong with it, and realise it is a tough time, and hope that it will change. That is all I can do. I will not be single and young forever. One thing I will not do, though, is ruin my life (and possibly my future family life) chasing airplanes for poverty wages, and crawling over every blind, starry eyed kid who is willing to do my job for less to get another flying position.

I love to fly, but my love for flying does not pay my bills.
 
Just in response to someone wondering why they are spending all the money with no guarantees...

I had the same quandary, and I rolled the question back and forth in my hands, metaphorically, while drinking a few beers and smoking some cigarettes.

I concluded that I would never, ever, on my deathbed, regret a single moment I spent flying GA on my own terms. And to that end, I realized that I didn't want to work for an airline. Ever.

Maybe I'll change my mind - dunno.
 
I've been researching this high paying IT career that Toonces keeps talking about his friend having, and it does indeed pay well. But there's something about it that sounds awfully familiar....

I am sure most of you have experienced "burnout" or "information overload" when working long hard hours. What about some of us, like me, that has been offered jobs that don't pay well or offer benefits? Because I have been in the accounting field for 10 years and would like to work in the IT field, how does one start a new career when the pay is not enough to even support a family at a poverty level? This fact and the fact that I am constantly studying and learning everything from computer repair to computer forensics within multi-platforms is overwhelming at times and knowing that. I feel that all my time learning is being wasted, because I won't ever find that job that pays well, provides great benefits, and is an entry-level position. Has anyone been in my situation and how did you accept or overcome the obstacle?
 
Unfortunately, when it comes to IT. . .an A+, MCSE, and CCNA certs are pretty worthless in regards to career earnings when compared to an individual who holds all those certifications and some, plus a degree in an IT related field.

Much like the career earning potential of a non-degree having regional pilot and a degree holding Legacy FO's career earning potential.

I have flown with many degree holding captains who CAN NOT get an interview at a legacy. That was back when they were hiring. I have a buddy who graduated from Riddle and then got hired at Eagle back in 2004. 4000 hrs of SIC and an Riddle degree later he is just as hosed as anybody with no degree.

I will use my good friend as an example yet again. He has been with the same company for 10 years now. he has tried to leave on several occasions. He had headhunters call him out of the blue and offer him jobs. Several years ago he was making around 70k and a headhunter called and set him up with a job programming PDA's for 90k. When he tried to quit his current job they offered to match what the other guys were offering. that has happened to him more than once.

This industry is a complete and total crap shoot. It is all about luck and very little about skill, knowledge, and preparation in regards to career progression. I have flown with a guy that flat out told me on day 1 of a 4 day and I quote "I am not very good at this job so keep an eye on me". He was very accurate in his self assessment. He sucked so bad. He scared me once every leg at least. The stupid thing is, the next legacy hiring wave that comes around he will get a job before me. I could be the smartest guy in all of aviation and fly with flawless perfection and it won't matter because I don't have 1000 turbine PIC. This profession does not reward excellence or experience. Pretty much every other profession does.
 
I have flown with many degree holding captains who CAN NOT get an interview at a legacy.

How well is he networked? I'd say about 80% of the qualified applicants that I've walked in a resume for have gotten an interview.

In my humble opinion, aviation jobs sites, online application services, et al, have benefits, but the alpha and the omega of moving up to a legacy carrier is having people familiar with your performance and confident in your ability walk your resume in.

Throwing a resume into airlineapps just means you're another one of 10-15000 boneheads looking for a job. Gotsta have those internal recommendations AND have those internals be wiling to keep the heat on the HR department until you're called.

Getting an interview can be a knife fight, make sure you bring a howitzer! :)
 
How well is he networked? I'd say about 80% of the qualified applicants that I've walked in a resume for have gotten an interview.

In my humble opinion, aviation jobs sites, online application services, et al, have benefits, but the alpha and the omega of moving up to a legacy carrier is having people familiar with your performance and confident in your ability walk your resume in.

Throwing a resume into airlineapps just means you're another one of 10-15000 boneheads looking for a job. Gotsta have those internal recommendations AND have those internals be wiling to keep the heat on the HR department until you're called.

Getting an interview can be a knife fight, make sure you bring a howitzer! :)

As usual sir, you are correct!

During my new hire indoc back in 2001, we were told, "There are over 10,000 apps on file. If you know anyone in the pile let us know. It's the only way to sort them."

What was true back then, is true today.
 
I created a new thread entitled, "Is a layover offtime?" from this thread.

It's a very interesting discussion and I think it's deserving of it's own thread.
 
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