ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
My only request for you is please don't become a writer.
Outsourcing and your career
- Thread starter Toonces
- Start date
My only request for you is please don't become a writer.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
I took all your points into consideration when I got into this career. Many people at my airline have families with kids and getting by just fine. Even at the "poor-paying" regional level it is essentially a 100k a year job after 10 years. I have NO regrets, Im having the time of my life, and I KNOW Im not alone....
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Not to get into another argument like the uniform thread, but to be received like a professional you should speak (write?) in a respectful manner. Besides, kids read these threads!
Diction refers to the writer's or the speaker's distinctive vocabulary choices and style of expression. I know that is not how you want to be received.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Glad you're enjoying it and you can tell us all, "HA! TOLD YA SO! I KNEW I WAS GONNA LOVE THIS!" But not all of us have been so lucky.
And it's luck, not skill that got you to where you are today. If I had gone to Mesaba instead of ExpressJet, I'd be a captain right now with commutable lines on the Saab 340 just like if Zap had stayed at Air Tran he'd be making mad cash, having a great schedule and flying 717's around the country. Instead he's living in middle America (and in a part of the country I'd personally like to avoid) and I'm starting a job as a ski instructor tomorrow.
So sometimes you eat the bar, and well, sometimes the bar eats you. It ain't good, it ain't bad, it just is. To think anything else, is, I think, to get ahead of yourself with this job.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
sure
Toonces
Well-Known Member
Jtrain beat me to it trip7. Today you may be lucky and tomorrow your airline may tank and you will have to start all over again. Easy to do when your 23 with no responsibility, not so easy at 40 with a wife, kids, and a mortgage. Not everybody came into this profession how you did either. Some of us were older and had no support from any parents or other family. Some of us were career changers and got into this all while having pay for a mortgage ect ect.
Glad you are enjoying yourself. I hope for your sake things never change for you. Keep in mind we aren't all 23 and single.
Glad you are enjoying yourself. I hope for your sake things never change for you. Keep in mind we aren't all 23 and single.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
I found out that I love flying WA too much to make it my career.
I might ditch the engineering thing down the road when I have a retirement account all made. Flying might be a job then to pay the current bills, but definitely not a career. In a couple of years I'll probably be well on my way to completing my first homebuilt (RV-7, XIO-390) having a blast just flying and not dealing with the BS that comes with ATC delays, union politics and ASAP reports that come with airline flying. Sure there will be some of that in an engineering career, but flying will be an oasis from all of that.
There is a guy up here that gets more enjoyment from 7 hours of GA flying in a month than his 70 hours of airline flying will layovers all over europe, yet still doesn't find the same bliss in GA flying anymore. You can get career enjoyment anywhere, you (at least I can't) replace the bliss that flying on my own terms has brought me.
I might ditch the engineering thing down the road when I have a retirement account all made. Flying might be a job then to pay the current bills, but definitely not a career. In a couple of years I'll probably be well on my way to completing my first homebuilt (RV-7, XIO-390) having a blast just flying and not dealing with the BS that comes with ATC delays, union politics and ASAP reports that come with airline flying. Sure there will be some of that in an engineering career, but flying will be an oasis from all of that.
There is a guy up here that gets more enjoyment from 7 hours of GA flying in a month than his 70 hours of airline flying will layovers all over europe, yet still doesn't find the same bliss in GA flying anymore. You can get career enjoyment anywhere, you (at least I can't) replace the bliss that flying on my own terms has brought me.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
This might end up being my new signature. Good quote.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Not to really dog on your Marcus. . .but. . .
You do realize that our company will not hold back any punches when it comes to sending people to the street right?
You do realize that that is indeed a realistic possibility? Or, are you sucking on the kool-aid straw right now?
Get real man. You won't be spared. What are you, 250 from the bottom? 300?
Oh but wait - I'm also having the time of my life - that is, so long as I keep getting a damn paycheck. Come on dude, think about TOMORROW, when that furlough notice comes.
It's not all cherry gum drops anymore man. Wake the hell up.
Even with the support from his parents, it's my understanding that he is still saddled with a fairly large sum of school debt.
Nevertheless, the bold portion.
No, it's not easy to do when you're 23 either. Sorry.
I left the Air Force at 23, making E4 pay + BAS + BAH.
My wife, at 22 was teaching in a high school making mid thirties.
Now at 24, a kid on the way, a mortgage, two cars (one paid for), bills, and we have still somehow managed to save enough money for 12 months of one of us being out of work.
It hasn't been easy, none of it is easy. It's frustrating as hell and extremely disappointing to be looking down the barrel of a furlough. The only satisfaction is being able to finally say "Finally," and move on. Otherwise, the suspense is killing us.
Then again, I grew the hell up when I left my parent's house. No reason to keep acting like a teenager when what's required is to act like a damn adult and man up to the reality of the world.
Hoof Hearted
New Member
I saw the same thing about 10 years ago in 1998. Then I started researching expatriate aviation. I have since then moved the whole family, wife, kids and pets to China. There were other places I considered but this was the best fit for us. I have never looked back.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Since I was mentioned, I'll chime in a bit...
I've been furloughed once, turned down my two majors, turned down by five regionals, and got a bad recommendation for leaving aviation for an ATC job.
Yeah, it's a crapshoot. But the only way to stay in the game is to stay in the game. So, I submit, we make our own luck to some degree. And, maybe around 2020, somebody gets my job. It's a crazy career but one that can be pretty rewarding on many different levels.
If you don't really love flying, and loved it since you were 10, then I'd look elsewhere. If you're in it for the money, I'd look elsewhere. If you decide to be in it, I'd suggest you consider it your best significant other, along with your other significant other.
I seriously have no complaints.
I've been furloughed once, turned down my two majors, turned down by five regionals, and got a bad recommendation for leaving aviation for an ATC job.
Yeah, it's a crapshoot. But the only way to stay in the game is to stay in the game. So, I submit, we make our own luck to some degree. And, maybe around 2020, somebody gets my job. It's a crazy career but one that can be pretty rewarding on many different levels.
If you don't really love flying, and loved it since you were 10, then I'd look elsewhere. If you're in it for the money, I'd look elsewhere. If you decide to be in it, I'd suggest you consider it your best significant other, along with your other significant other.
I seriously have no complaints.
Lowlevel
Heehee.. Member
Little picket lines will never change anything. What is needed is for EVERY airline pilot in America to walk off the job and stand together and demand better working conditions and better pay. They can't train enough pilots to fill EVERY pilot position (777 Captains aren't on every corner). Of course, the older guys with the higher pay would never walk off and stand by their comrades who are in a position that they were in 20-25 years ago.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Company won't hold back any punches? Technically we should have furloughed in the fall. BH refused to do it. If we had any other regional management in the industry(besides SKW) about a 150 would have been gone last fall. ASA is taking the hit of being fat on pilots for as long as they can before furloughing.
You got to be kidding me dude. I wonder how some of you sleep at night. You guys CONSTANTLY live in FEAR. Especially you Surreal. I live my life a day at a time man. I'm not worried about all that furlough crap. When I find out I'm definitely getting furloughed then I'll start evaluating my options. I'm not gunna let myself lose sleep or go ranting across internet boards about the industry.
"You won't be spared"
"You're gunna get furloughed!"
"Your regional will go out of business"
"You're probably not going to make it to a major"
All this negative rhetoric is out of control. I'm just glad I'm blessed with the ability to think positively and live essentially worry free....
Toonces
Well-Known Member
Trip7
Of course you can live care free. You are 23 single and have no kids or any real responsibility. You are the minority in this business. I am sure it’s a blast living in a crash pad with other 15 guys in your position. I am sure if Skywest decided to take all of ASA's flying tomorrow that you would be just fine. You could take your Xbox and move back in with mommy and daddy. Some people have to figure out how to take care of their wives and children AND their mortgage, student loans ect ect. They have to do all this on the same wage you make. Again...You are one furlough, or outsource (Midwest) away from being back to crap pay and schedules.
This industry does not value experience. If you were an accountant and you were laid off or your company downsized, there is a high probability you will find a new job at or above your current salary. That will almost never happen in aviation. How many times are you willing to start over if the day comes that you get the pink slip in your V file? Trip7 when the day comes that you have children and god forbid you get furloughed or your airline goes under; are you going to look your kid in the eye and tell them "Looks like you have to find your own way to pay for college. Daddy has to go be a day one F.O again making 25 bucks an hour". Are you going to force your family to suffer and struggle for the selfish pursuit of burning jet A? Maybe YOU will. I dunno. Maybe you won't have to ever make that choice. Maybe you will be one of the few. What if you are not?
Of course you can live care free. You are 23 single and have no kids or any real responsibility. You are the minority in this business. I am sure it’s a blast living in a crash pad with other 15 guys in your position. I am sure if Skywest decided to take all of ASA's flying tomorrow that you would be just fine. You could take your Xbox and move back in with mommy and daddy. Some people have to figure out how to take care of their wives and children AND their mortgage, student loans ect ect. They have to do all this on the same wage you make. Again...You are one furlough, or outsource (Midwest) away from being back to crap pay and schedules.
This industry does not value experience. If you were an accountant and you were laid off or your company downsized, there is a high probability you will find a new job at or above your current salary. That will almost never happen in aviation. How many times are you willing to start over if the day comes that you get the pink slip in your V file? Trip7 when the day comes that you have children and god forbid you get furloughed or your airline goes under; are you going to look your kid in the eye and tell them "Looks like you have to find your own way to pay for college. Daddy has to go be a day one F.O again making 25 bucks an hour". Are you going to force your family to suffer and struggle for the selfish pursuit of burning jet A? Maybe YOU will. I dunno. Maybe you won't have to ever make that choice. Maybe you will be one of the few. What if you are not?
Come on folks, don't belittle the guy. That's just another instrument in what seems to be a symphony of opinion and perspective -- that's what we're talking about.
Now if we're debating how 225^1/2 = 15 and he's saying it's 2, or that "I have a day VFR restriction on my medical, can I still be a MD-11 pilot for Fedex" that's another case.
Now if we're debating how 225^1/2 = 15 and he's saying it's 2, or that "I have a day VFR restriction on my medical, can I still be a MD-11 pilot for Fedex" that's another case.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
You are indeed blessed, as I was after leaving college and for the next several years. Those are the years during which you can go anywhere and do anything in pursuit of your dream. Enjoy and do not squander them for they will be gone before you know it.
If I had a time machine i'd do so many things differently.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Uh - okay. So he loves us and would never send us out to the street since he saved us once? Give me a break.
Our management is being dealt a hand none of us can hold them responsible for, except for the fact that they hired too many people. Oil sky rocketed, our fleet is fat on 50 seat jets that are not cost efficient, and ultimately our mainline partner is reducing domestic capacity AGAIN in 2009. The writing is on the wall, and I don't blame BH, CT, SH, or any of our management for this. As such, I'm not going to expect them to honestly stay fat on pilots unless we actually gain flying somewhere.
Yup, before furloughing - now you're starting to understand. . .it's going to happen.
Historically, every company that has furloughed has been fat on pilots UP TO the day they furloughed. . .shocking isn't!?
That's like. . .
I'll steal the car, then evaluate my financing/payment options.
Plan today for tomorrow.
